What drug makes you feel invincible?

[QuantumTheory]

I'm watching the history channel right now on the history of illegal drugs marijuana and cocaine. There's a illegal drug though I forgot which one it is which makes you feel invincible and where you can't feel pain. Which drug is it?

 

[whozum]

Theres a new one out on the streets, its called google..
I'm addicted to it

 

[hypnagogue]

I'm watching the history channel right now on the history of illegal drugs marijuana and cocaine. There's a illegal drug though I forgot which one it is which makes you feel invincible and where you can't feel pain. Which drug is it?

There are probably a number of drugs that can induce that kind of thing. Are you thinking of PCP maybe?

PCP users are often characterized as violent or suicidal. However, this portrait of a PCP user may not be accurate. Dr. Jaime Diaz, a professor in the Department of Psychology at the University of Washington, reviewed many of the published reports of PCP use in his book, How Drugs Influence Behavior. A Neuro-Behavioral Approach (Upper Saddle River (NJ): Prentice Hall, 1997). He states that PCP use rarely results in violence and concludes that:

"Phencyclidine does not cause aggression or criminal behavior."

Dr. Diaz believes that the reported violent behavior is not due to the pharmacological effect of PCP, but rather is the result of the way people under the influence of PCP perceive things and are subsequently treated by law enforcement personnel. People under the influence of PCP may not feel pain and their perception of sensory stimuli may be altered, possibly causing police officers to use stronger methods to control such individuals.

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/pcp.html

 

[loseyourname]

I would have to guess it was either PCP or Ecstasy. I don't know about feeling invincible, but both are very dangerous in the sense that they get rid of all pain.

If you believe Fear and Loathing, though, on PCP you can still feel little annoyances. Anyone remember the story about the guy in prison whose eyes were itching so he tore them out (which, of course, no man would do could he feel pain)?

 

[QuantumTheory]

Theres a new one out on the streets, its called google..
I'm addicted to it

yes PCP, that's it

 

[mattmns]

You ever watch Cops on tv? Sometimes they have people on there who are on something, I think it may be pcp, and they are insane to take down. They are sweating like crazy, and it usually takes like 5 or 6 cops to take them down, a few tazor guns, whew!

 

[Moonbear]

They are sweating like crazy, and it usually takes like 5 or 6 cops to take them down, a few tazor guns, whew!

That's where it gets dangerous...even more so for the user than for the cops. The lack of pain perception leads the cops to think they're not harming the person they're arresting, so they end up using excessive force. The cops perceive them as resisting arrest, but the suspect just doesn't have the necessary awareness/perception to respond appropriately to their demands. Combined with the systemic effects the drugs already have on things like elevating heart rate, the outcome is too likely that the suspect ends up heading to the hospital or morgue. The cops really should be given special training for handling these people; it would make it safer for everyone involved. As long as they aren't armed, it might make more sense to just cordon off an area and keep others away from them until the drugs wear off rather than try to restrain them when either the cops or the user is likely to get seriously injured in the process.

 

[Lapin Dormant]

That's where it gets dangerous...even more so for the user than for the cops. The lack of pain perception leads the cops to think they're not harming the person they're arresting, so they end up using excessive force. The cops perceive them as resisting arrest, but the suspect just doesn't have the necessary awareness/perception to respond appropriately to their demands. Combined with the systemic effects the drugs already have on things like elevating heart rate, the outcome is too likely that the suspect ends up heading to the hospital or morgue. The cops really should be given special training for handling these people; it would make it safer for everyone involved. As long as they aren't armed, it might make more sense to just cordon off an area and keep others away from them until the drugs wear off rather than try to restrain them when either the cops or the user is likely to get seriously injured in the process.

Excessive force? you mean like they Shoot them? Breaking limbs? intentionally smashing them in the face, repetitively, as to break all of there facial Bones? when have you ever seen the police regularily {As Course of Duty} do things like that? {yes, I know, there are exceptional cases, ie Rodney King}

How do you sudue a Human Being without hurting them?

How do you subdue a Human Being On Powerful Drugs without hurting them?

How do you subdue a Human being, to the point of restraint, as that is what they need to do to ensure that that human being, is NO longer a Danger to the Public, or to them, {the Police} or to themselves?

Wait it out, like paying taxes, do you?

"wait it out"? so the diversionary tactic of Every crook on the planet becomes get someone else really really High and all of the police in the area will be there "waiting it out"

Excessive force is NOT several police officers taking someone to the ground, and cuffing them, that is simply them arresting a resisting offender.

"Leading them to believe they are not hurting the person" you mean when they use one of the trained Nerve Point tactics and NOT a Thing Happens, the suspect Doesn't even NOTICE it, is that what you mean by "Leads them to believe" cause I would believe it at that point, too!

They are given special training, but subdueing a Human being who is willfully resisting Just isn't that simply, try it someday wrestling with a Friend, I have, and when I have restraints upon me to NOT hurt the other person, and they don't, it isn't easy at all.

Sorry, but it bothers me that they always seem to be made targets of, the police, yet so few people have any real idea of just how difficult what you are talking about really is, restraining a Human.

that said .. .. ..

LD
.. .. .. .. .. .. gone to restrain myself[/color]

 

[cronxeh]

Phencyclidine (PCP) is a very dangerous dissociative anesthetic, and treatment usually includes Narcan for increased respiratory rate, Valium for muscle rigidity, and restraints. Depending on the dose the individual under effects will be anything from violent, panicky, feeling godlike, impared judgement, ataxia, amnesia, hallucinations, psychotic, delirius, catatonic, and drooling.

While restraining such individual it is important to remember that any disruption of sensory input of such individuals would cause them to violently react to their environment (think Police kicking them or touching them or trying to put them in a car)

 

[Lapin Dormant]

What illegal drug makes you feel invincible?

None of them .. .. .. .. and I have definitely NOT tried them, all!

Not even close, and I wouldn't want to, statistic I had heard was that one in ten who simply TRY cocaine get Hooked Immediately.

Tough enough in life, don't need to add such other trials to it.

 

[EnumaElish]

I'm watching the history channel right now on the history of illegal drugs marijuana and cocaine. There's a illegal drug though I forgot which one it is which makes you feel invincible and where you can't feel pain. Which drug is it?

Krypton.

Joke aside, I've read that infants (very few, the reader is assured) born with a condition that blocks any feeling of pain die within a few years -- until which they can be chewing up their tongues and gouging out their eyes.

One would like to believe that the thin blue line between minimum necessary force and outright brutality is very bright and clear.

 

[hitssquad]

infants [...] born with a condition that blocks any feeling of pain die within a few years

As of November 2004, Ashlyn Blocker was still alive at the age of 5.

google.com/search?q=%22Ashlyn+Blocker%22+pain

 

[EnumaElish]

As of November 2004, Ashlyn Blocker was still alive at the age of 5.

YAY! Many cheers for Ashlyn!

 

[Moonbear]

Excessive force is NOT several police officers taking someone to the ground, and cuffing them, that is simply them arresting a resisting offender.

No, I'm using the term excessive force to mean anything that leads to the hospitalization or death of the suspect, such as using 5 tasers on one person because they didn't react to one; I'm not necessarily using it in the sense of police misconduct. Zapping someone with electricity and then zapping them with more when they don't react to it, and already have a racing heart rate is a darn good way of inducing a heart attack. I'm not even talking about it being intentional abuse of a suspect, Rodney King style, but just that when someone doesn't respond to force, the natural response, and what they are trained to do, is to increase the force.

Have you seen footage of cops trying to subdue a suspect on PCP? It's dangerous for them to approach the subject as much as it's dangerous for the subject. The way they've been trained to respond to someone who resists arrest doesn't work with someone on PCP. Nothing the user does is rational, inducing pain (even without injury) doesn't work because they don't feel it, so what do you do? Zap them more when they don't react to a taser, assuming the taser is having no effect on their body? Pile on enough cops so that the suspect not only can't get back up, but also can't breathe, because that's how many it takes to hold them down? Someone on PCP doesn't even stop struggling and doesn't stop being a danger after the cuffs are on. They can have broken ribs from the struggle and still don't curl up in pain but keep going, risking puncturing a lung. Ultimately, it's the drug and the fault of the user who took such a dangerous drug that you can blame, but that isn't constructive to improving police procedure if there is a better way of subduing such a suspect that reduces the risk to the police and suspect, and any by-standers too.

Sorry, but it bothers me that they always seem to be made targets of, the police, yet so few people have any real idea of just how difficult what you are talking about really is, restraining a Human.

Yes, I know what the police are up against (you're probably too new to have seen the older threads where I've mentioned that I have relatives who are cops), but we're talking about someone with a completely altered sense of reality, like a psychiatric patient. We're not talking about your common criminal who is actively resisting arrest out of conscious choice. Their training to handle these situations is lacking, that's my argument here. They're doing what they're trained to do, and I'm not blaming the cops, I'm blaming the lack of proper training for handling someone for whom the usual tactics simply don't work and put BOTH the cops and offender in harm's way. When you need a half dozen cops to just hold the suspect down long enough to get cuffs on, the cops don't come out unscathed either. They need different training to handle these situations and a different response. Heck, instead of a taser, they might need an M.D. to load up a dart gun for them to administer a tranquilizer before approaching.

"wait it out"? so the diversionary tactic of Every crook on the planet becomes get someone else really really High and all of the police in the area will be there "waiting it out"

Uh, yeah, right. Show me some evidence that common crooks, every crook on the planet no less, is going to do that. Heck, if they were that organized, they'd already be doing it since so much of the police force already responds to such an incident. Waiting it out doesn't need to be the only response, it was just one alternative to having a half dozen cops spending the night in the ER getting busted noses treated and then spending the next day filling out the paperwork for the suspect that they accompanied to the ER that was pronounced DOA.

Anyway, this is all a long way of saying that my first post was not criticizing the cops, it was pointing out that given the challenges of subduing a suspect under the influence of this drug, alternative approaches should be considered for handling this type of scenario. It's not saying they've done something wrong, but saying there might be something better.

 

[Smurf]

Ahhh yes... another newb made the fatal mistake of arguing with moonbear only to see their entire argument utterly smashed in front of their very own eyes...

Is it wrong that this is so satisfying?

 

[Moonbear]

Ahhh yes... another newb made the fatal mistake of arguing with moonbear only to see their entire argument utterly smashed in front of their very own eyes...

Is it wrong that this is so satisfying?

Aww...don't be so hard on him, he's just a sleepy little rabbit who misunderstood my initial statement. I could be considered as much to blame in this case for making a statement that was unclear (excessive force does have a specific meaning in the case of police misconduct, so I should have defined from the outset that my usage was different from the usual definition). He wasn't being purposely obtuse like some in the past.

 

[Smurf]

I know.. that's why I was nice enough to call it a "Mistake".

 

[Mk]

Have you seen footage of cops trying to subdue a suspect on PCP?

Here's an interesting related thing.

http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/sparky.htm
WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES
It may not be something you want to see again.

It's dangerous for them to approach the subject as much as it's dangerous for the subject. The way they've been trained to respond to someone who resists arrest doesn't work with someone on PCP. Nothing the user does is rational, inducing pain (even without injury) doesn't work because they don't feel it, so what do you do? Zap them more when they don't react to a taser, assuming the taser is having no effect on their body? Pile on enough cops so that the suspect not only can't get back up, but also can't breathe, because that's how many it takes to hold them down? Someone on PCP doesn't even stop struggling and doesn't stop being a danger after the cuffs are on. They can have broken ribs from the struggle and still don't curl up in pain but keep going, risking puncturing a lung.

And you're suggesting this temporary Terminator-like character should be let run around the streets until the effects end? This is a guy who has no sanity, and feels no pain. I've seen videos of people like this before. I remember this one guy, he was the most insane of the three, who robbed a bank, then drove off in their getaway car in circles at 15 mph. The man I'm talking about jumped out of the car with an AK-47, and a .45, and walked around very casually mowing down anyone he saw. The AK-47 had a malfunction, a bullet casing was hanging on. To fix it all you have to do is hit it out with your hand, but the killer threw down the machine gun and continued to shoot with the handgun. About 20 minutes later he gave up, and committed suicide. When his body was examined, they found he was shot 26 times. The whole thing was caught on video camera from a police helicopter.

Anyway, this is all a long way of saying that my first post was not criticizing the cops, it was pointing out that given the challenges of subduing a suspect under the influence of this drug, alternative approaches should be considered for handling this type of scenario. It's not saying they've done something wrong, but saying there might be something better.

Ok. Yay, smiling is good~!
http://www.happynews.com/

 

[cronxeh]

I think the only rational way is to have some sort of a non abrasive net being launched at them, perhaps that would also deliver a set dose of Valium and Narcan. This new net should be launched from, say, 20 ft distance, and should be fully automated. The police should then simply pick up the patient after 3 minutes and hand them over to the paramedics. I think the patient should be restrained with special types of restraints and delivered to a local ER and attended by a psychiatrist.

 

[Smurf]

A tranquilizer with some sort of sedative could make the situation far less dangerous - although I doubt it'd fix the problem completely.

 

[cronxeh]

I don't think people under influence of a substance should be treated like some wild animals. They are simply a danger to those around them, but they are still human. We should use our ingenuity to the fullest to solve this particular problem. The police of the future ought to have an arsenal of non leathal tools and weapons available to them, including nets, breathable gel/glue like containment foam, wide microwave beam to control crowds, foul odors, etc

 

[Smurf]

Or even better.. Portable Force Fields!

In the future we can deal with these PCP high folks by simply sucking them out of the space-time continuum until they chill out. Yeah... that's what we should do...

 

[cronxeh]

Do pigs fly in Canada?

 

[Smurf]

No, but toast always lands butter side up.

 

[cronxeh]

I envy you people..

 

[Smurf]

We've also decriminalized marijuana...

 

[cronxeh]

I don't care about that

 

[The_Professional]

Illegal drugs are bad for you mmmkay. They make you do bad things mmmkay. So kids, don't do drugs mmkay?

 

[Smurf]

I don't care about that

Wimp.

 

[Anttech]

Heroin and other opates (Depressives, downers) subdue pain... MDMA doesnt, but some people cut xtc pills with ketamine which does have that effect, on top of making you feel totally "out of it"...

From what I have heard of PCP, I think that is what you are talking about... On the street they call it Angel dust (AFAIK)

 

[loseyourname]

Are you sure? I was under the impression that one of the effects of X was to make all sensations (even those that would normally be painful) pleasurable. I've never used it myself, so I'm relying on my memory (which isn't the greatest) of third-person sources.

 

[zanazzi78]

Taking from personal experience MDMA does block pain, it does not make all sensations pleasurable, it release a massive amount of serotonin resulting it the euphoria commenly described, during this high you are un-aware of any other sensations as it is so overwhelming.

 

[Anttech]

Are you sure?

I am sure, and it is from personal experience... You are very unlikely to every have pure "MDMA" when you xtc, its usually cut with a multiude of other drugs (and holdhold chemicals)...

during this high you are un-aware of any other sensations as it is so overwhelming.

Well yes maybe, but it isn't a "depressive" like opates, ie it doesn't surpress the nervous system.

You do "feel" pain, in fact all your sensations are hightened, but as you said you usually are so overwhelmed by its effects "pain" isn't registaring as it would normally ...MDMA also surpress hunger and a multitude of other things... But one thing it isn't is a depressive (Downer)...

 

[zanazzi78]

But one thing it isn't is a depressive (Downer)...

I`s about as far from beign a downer as is possible.

note. I no longer take drugs, I do not condon the taking of controlled substances, and urge anyone considering it not to proceed. If you wish to hear my reasons why please PM me before making your decision!

 

[Anttech]

note. I no longer take drugs, I do not condon the taking of controlled substances, and urge anyone considering it not to proceed. If you wish to hear my reasons why please PM me before making your decision!

Interesting... Do share...

 

[zanazzi78]

I`d rather not in such a public place.

I`m not proud of the person i used to be but I am willing to tell someone of my mistakes if it where to help them make the right decision.

You don`t need to know since you made your choice.

(I don`t want this to come arcoss as being rude)

 

[loseyourname]

Has anybody here ever looked into the history of contemporary illicit drugs? It is pretty fascinating the medicinal uses they once had. Cocaine was developed as a local anesthetic; heroin was developed to help people kick morphine addiction; LSD was developed to help people kick alcohol addictions; and MDMA was developed for use in marriage counseling.

 

[Lapin Dormant]

We've also decriminalized marijuana...

Really?? WHERE?

 

[Lapin Dormant]

Shoot that drugie, now

Ahhh yes... another newb made the fatal mistake of arguing with moonbear only to see their entire argument utterly smashed in front of their very own eyes...Is it wrong that this is so satisfying?

Yes!

Aww...don't be so hard on him, he's just a sleepy little rabbit who misunderstood my initial statement. I could be considered as much to blame in this case for making a statement that was unclear (excessive force does have a specific meaning in the case of police misconduct, so I should have defined from the outset that my usage was different from the usual definition). He wasn't being purposely obtuse like some in the past.

O.K. Is there a Doctor in the House who is willing to administer to ANYONE a Dosage of Drug based upon the Known medical conditions of the Observable patient, Height = 'about roughly' weight = 'about roughly' and Known to be Wacked out on PCP, enraged, Hearts Flyin!? cause if there is you can be the Next "Medical Shooter" Target officer for the police.

LD
Listens to the Silence of Non responciveness from the Doctors(?) in the House .. .. ..[/color]

Administering a Drug, does anyone know of one, a drug, that gaurantees efficacity, as in, the patient Will NOT be harmed by the Adminstration of the drug, nor by any of the Drugs effects, Gauranteed (right?) and that it is assured that this will stop that patient, in VERY short order from doing any further harm to themselves, and especially to any others? Anyone? ? (are you?)

My entire arguement?? entirely smashed?? apparently you read with a VERY Prejudiced Eye.

Looked more to me to be along the lines of two people finding-seeking some sort of Common Intellectual Ground upon which to foist a solution.

 

[Anttech]

Has anybody here ever looked into the history of contemporary illicit drugs? It is pretty fascinating the medicinal uses they once had. Cocaine was developed as a local anesthetic; heroin was developed to help people kick morphine addiction; LSD was developed to help people kick alcohol addictions; and MDMA was developed for use in marriage counseling.

Yes.. You should also read up on the Opium laws, and their history with reference to the Dutch... basically its what made the Dutch royal family rich

 

[Lapin Dormant]

Alcohol, it seems to make many believe that they are "Invincible" while driving a car, or starting a Fight in a Bar, or anywheres else, for that matter.

Potent Drug, noxious substance, and completely Legal. Definitely a Social 'Causitive' though, Social Dis-order when in the Hands of the Abusive and-or Abuser.

 

[cronxeh]

Listens to the Silence of Non responciveness from the Doctors(?) in the House .. .. ..[/color]
Administering a Drug, does anyone know of one, a drug, that gaurantees efficacity, as in, the patient Will NOT be harmed by the Adminstration of the drug, nor by any of the Drugs effects, Gauranteed (right?) and that it is assured that this will stop that patient, in VERY short order from doing any further harm to themselves, and especially to any others? Anyone? ? (are you?)

In fact that is exactly how one would administer the drug Haloperidol for example - you look at the patient, his/her weight and you administer it. Obviously this doesn't guarantee that the drug will work or won't have side effects, but if you really want me to rub it hard in your face then know this : nobody will ever guarantee you anything for any reason in medicine.

 

[Loren Booda]

While tripping on LSD at Yale, I attempted a short cut by climbing an iron fence when I grabbed a live light socket. I had sense enough to allow my weight to break the connection and fell on a picket fence, almost racking myself. Then I mustered the nerve to complain to the campus police.

 

[cronxeh]

While tripping on LSD at Yale, I attempted a short cut by climbing an iron fence when I grabbed a live light socket. I had sense enough to allow my weight to break the connection and fell on a picket fence, almost racking myself. Then I mustered the nerve to complain to the campus police.

That is just disturbing. If you are going to 'do' drugs at least make sure you are doing it responsibly - right dose, right environment, and definitely a sitter present there to make sure you don't walk around or hurt yourself or others.

 

[Loren Booda]

No wonder that the strongest drug (besides 1 and 1/2 beers once) I have used in the past 21 years is caffeine.

I once witnessed a "buddy" consume two fifths of hard liquor, then start on a third. Now that was disturbing - also since no one tried to stop him.

 

[Lapin Dormant]

In fact that is exactly how one would administer the drug Haloperidol for example - you look at the patient, his/her weight and you administer it. Obviously this doesn't guarantee that the drug will work or won't have side effects, but if you really want me to rub it hard in your face then know this : nobody will ever guarantee you anything for any reason in medicine.

Please "rub it into my face" as HARD as you think you can, as that is EXACTLY MY POINT!

And that is exactly why I had made that statement-that way, because I
already Knew-Know that those are the requisites of administering a Drug, Height and Weight.

What I was trying to do was point out? ask! if that is not nessecarily a Better, more garaunteed method, then Five Taser shots, which personally I do NOT think of as Appropriate, but I am not the Officer facing the "Wacked out of their mind-body" Drug user, then again neither are you.

 

[cronxeh]

As species gifted with higher intelligence we ought to take care of our own rather than tase them to death. Rather than killing the excess and the stupid, the elderly and the obviously offensive and odorly, we should conserve and limit the population growth, take care of our existing species and ensure our survival for the future. Simply killing off the disorderly in our society or jailing for possession depicts the evolutionary remnats of stupidity in all of us

 

[Anttech]

right dose

of LSD = None

 

[Lapin Dormant]

As species gifted with higher intelligence we ought to take care of our own rather than tase them to death. Rather than killing the excess and the stupid, the elderly and the obviously offensive and odorly, we should conserve and limit the population growth, take care of our existing species and ensure our survival for the future. Simply killing off the disorderly in our society or jailing for possession depicts the evolutionary remnats of stupidity in all of us

I would agree, also with the Other {Previous} posters' empathy for the User from which came that expressed idea of 'was there another way' {Paraphrasing} suggesting the use of a Dart gun, or drug, that is why I had pointed out what I had pointed out, nevermind the reality of trying to make an intravenous shot with a Dart gun, right?

 

[cronxeh]

I would agree, also with the Other {Previous} posters' empathy for the User from which came that expressed idea of 'was there another way' {Paraphrasing} suggesting the use of a Dart gun, or drug, that is why I had pointed out what I had pointed out, nevermind the reality of trying to make an intravenous shot with a Dart gun, right?

Well I'd sleep better at night if the person was shot with a tranquilizer rather than electricuted to defibrillation