16 year old solves 300 year old problem set by Isaac Newton

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Shouryya Ray, a 16-year-old student, has reportedly solved a 300-year-old problem posed by Isaac Newton regarding the trajectory of a projectile under gravity and air resistance, as well as a 19th-century problem about particle-wall collisions. His work, which won him second prize in a national science competition in Germany, claims to provide the first analytical solution to these long-standing issues. However, there is skepticism in the discussion about the validity of his claims, with some participants questioning the reliability of sources and the actual mathematical details of his solutions. The conversation highlights a lack of accessible information on the specific problems and solutions presented in Ray's work. Overall, the significance of his achievements remains debated among forum members.
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mobile.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/german-teen-shouryya-ray-solves-300-year-old-mathematical-riddle-posed-by-sir-isaac-Newton/story-e6frfkui-1226368490521

Shouryya Ray worked out how to calculate exactly the path of a projectile under gravity and subject to air resistance, The (London) Sunday Times reported. The Indian-born teen said he solved the problem that had stumped mathematicians for centuries while working on a school project.


m.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/german-teen-shouryya-ray-solves-300-year-old-mathematical-riddle-posed-by-sir-isaac-Newton/story-e6frf7k6-1226368490521

Mr Ray has also solved a second problem, dealing with the collision of a body with a wall, that was posed in the 19th century.


I am still trying to figure out what the original problem was. Any thoughts on this?
 
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I find it hard to believe a problem like that "stumped" mathematicians (and physicists too, I guess) for this long, only to be solved by a 16 year old kid.
 
Whatever it was, it won him 2nd prize in a competition and it has been published - but I don't read German well enough to spend time finding any more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouryya_Ray
 
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AlephZero said:
Whatever it was, it won him 2nd prize in a competition and it has been published - but I don't read German well enough to spend time finding any more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouryya_Ray
Read the talk page. At this moment:

The article's only citation is to an Indian news website which repeats the claims of the British tabloid The Daily Mail. This is not a reliable source. —Psychonaut (talk) 11:23, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
yeah, I'm seeing this story everywhere but Can't find any details on the actual math involved.144.132.197.230 (talk) 11:38, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Where is the maths problem and what was his solution? 220.239.37.244 (talk) 11:44, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
ha I guess I am not the only one looking for the problem. It's just annoying when you hear something like an unsolved problem in physics and they don't tell you the actual problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.197.8.154 (talk) 12:17, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Page should be deleted and recreated some time in the future if the story turns out to be true. It's too soon and Wikipedia is not a news source. There should also be a verifiable citation of the nature of the two problems in question and that they actually were regarded as unsolven previously. 82.6.102.118 (talk) 14:02, 27 May 2012 (UTC)​
 
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The problem is to calculate the trajectory of a body thrown at an angle in the Earth's gravitational field and in a Newtonian fluid. His paper claims to be the first analytical solution to the problem.
 
The problem is to calculate the trajectory of a body thrown at an angle in the Earth's gravitational field and in a Newtonian fluid.
In "Mathematical Aspects of Classical and Celestial Mechanics", Arnold & co. claim that this problem was solved by Legendre for a wide class of power law resistance terms of the form c v^\gamma. The extract is attached.

Arnold claims that the 1st order equation which the system reduces to is soluble by the method of variation of parameters, but when he says something like this you always get the impression he's ducking out. But what do you know, Wolfram alpha solves it so I assume the method must work eventually.

Maybe the solution here is for more complicated force laws, or for a particle which perhaps has angular momentum or something? Of course, it's also possible that everyone (outside of Russia) simply forgot that the solution had ever been found.
 

Attachments

How do they know he figured out the actual solution if it has stumped mathematicians for so many years? That said, things like this have happened. There was a woman who, purely by random chance, figured out how to solve some kind of mathematical color theorems that had stumped mathematicians for many years.
 
AlephZero said:
Whatever it was, it won him 2nd prize in a competition and it has been published - but I don't read German well enough to spend time finding any more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouryya_Ray

Hurkyl said:
Read the talk page...

This seems to be the primary source for the story. http://www.jufo-dresden.de/projekt/teilnehmer/matheinfo/m1 Computer translation:

Category: Mathematics/computer science
Supervisor: Prof. Dr.-ing. Jochen Fröhlich, Dr.-ing. Tobias Kempe
Type of competition: Young researchers

Prizes won:
•2nd place in the State contest
•National winner
•Regional winner for the best interdisciplinary project
Two problems of classical mechanics have withstood several centuries of mathematical effort. The first problem is therefore, to calculate the trajectory of a slanted raised body in the Earth gravity field and Newtonian flow resistance. The underlying power law was already discovered by Newton (17th century). The second problem, the goal is the description of a particle-Wall collision under Hertz'scher collision force and linear damping. The force of the collision was already in 1858 derived from Hertz, a linear damping force is known since Stokes (1850).

This work is the analytical solution of this so far only approximate or numerically solved problems so to the objectives. First the two problems in the context of generalized solved full analysis, these are then compared with numerical solutions and finally starting inferred statements about the physical behavior of the analytical solutions.

Without seeing his actual competition entry, comparing it with any previous work is just speculation IMO. Perhaps the press is ignoring the second problem because it doesn't have an nice headline like "Indian kid is smarter than Newton".
 
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ObsessiveMathsFreak said:
But what do you know, Wolfram alpha solves it so I assume the method must work eventually.
Alpha solves it because it interprets your equation for u[k], rather than u[a]. Partial u with respect to alpha is zero, in this case, so naturally, solution is just the remainder of your equation, which is a non-differential equation. You really should never rely on Alpha to interpret your equations correctly. Always double-check. Better yet, skip Alpha and use Mathematica.

Mathematica does solve this equation down to an integral which probably cannot be evaluated analytically.
 
  • #10
CAC1001 said:
How do they know he figured out the actual solution if it has stumped mathematicians for so many years?
Solving problems can be tricky - checking the solution is usually much easier.

While the computer translation in AlephZero's post is a bit funny, it contains everything relevant. The actual problem and the solution are not given.
 
  • #11
I've also been searching high and low for his paper, to no avail, though I did run across one photo of him holding his equation, which looked quite simple for such a vicious problem. (The drag on a projectile is a function of the velocity squared (with caveats), and the velocity decreases based on the drag. The current method of solving the problem is iterative interpolation using data from standard reference projectiles.)

From some other references, I gather he approached it as a damping problem, mentioning attempts at it by Hertz and Stokes.
 
  • #12
I'm having deja vu - this just happened a few months ago.
 
  • #13
gturner6ppc said:
From some other references, I gather he approached it as a damping problem, mentioning attempts at it by Hertz and Stokes.

I took the computer translation as meaning they were essentially two separate problems, the second one being Hertzian contact with the wall (including some model of energy loss during the impact).

If he has achieved anything significant on the contact/impact problem, I would be professionally interested in seeing it. Modelling this numerically as part of a larger mechanical system is usually a PITA.
 
  • #14
ObsessiveMathsFreak said:
But what do you know, Wolfram alpha solves it so I assume the method must work eventually.
It's always a good idea to check whether Mathematica made some amazingly dumb mistake. And it did.

Here is the correct solution: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=u'(a)+k*u(a)*tan(a)++k*c*arccos(a)=0. Note that the solution contains a definite integral.

What about that definite integral? As an indefinite integral, Wolfram alpha just gives up . http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=integrate+(arccos(x)/cos(x)^k)*dx As a definite integral it times out.
 
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  • #15
Did a 16 year old solve a centuries-old problem by Newton?

It seems like either something important (I'm not sure what) has just happened, or this is just another baseless tempest in a teapot manufactured by the media. But see here. They're claming that a 16-year old kid named Shouryya Ray just solved a problem posed Newton centuries ago, concerning the trajectory of a particle in the Earth's gravitational field subject to air resistance. They're also claiming that in the course of his work, he solved a problem of linear damping in a Newtonian fluid posed by Stokes in 1850 and another linear damping problem concerning collision of a ball and a wall posed by Hertz in 1858. Apparently for this work he won 2nd place in the national high school science competition in Germany.

Here's the abstract or description of his work (via Google Translate):
Two problems in classical mechanics have withstood several centuries of mathematical endeavor. The first problem is therefore to calculate the trajectory of a body thrown at an angle in the Earth's gravitational field and Newtonian flow resistance. The underlying power law was discovered by Newton (17th century). The second problem is the objective description of a particle-wall collision under Hertzian collision force and linear damping. The collision energy was derived in 1858 by Hertz, a linear damping force has been known since Stokes (1850).

This paper has so far only the analytical solution of this approximate or numerical targets for the problems solved. First, the two problems are solved fully analytically generalized context, they then compared with numerical solutions and, finally, on the basis of the analytical solutions derived statements about the physical behavior.

What's going on here? Can anyone find out any details about this if it's significant, or this is just a much ado about nothing?
 
  • #17
Threads merged.
 
  • #18
K^2 said:
That's not an integral equation. That's just an integral.
Corrected.

My main point still stands: Wolfram alpha (Mathematica) occasionally makes some absolute howlers. It assumed \frac{du}{da} meant \frac{\partial u(k)}{\partial a}. It then assumed that since u is a function of k that this means \frac{\partial u(k)}{\partial a}=0. That is a howler.
 
  • #19
That's purely Alpha. It does best it can to interpret the input. How the heck is it supposed to know what u is a function of? In Mathematica, you would have to enter it explicitly.

Code:
DSolve[u'[a]+k*u[a]*Tan[a] +k*c*ArcCos[a]==0, u, a]

This way, there can be no ambiguity. But there is no room for user error, either. If you put = instead of ==, Mathematica isn't going to try and guess what you meant. It will actually treat that whole expression as 0 from there on, because that's what your code requested. Alpha tries to be peasant-friendly, so it will obviously resolve ambiguities in favor of simplicity.
 
  • #21
What really seems strange to me is that the solution to a problem proposed by Newton and unsolved by mathematicians and physicists for 300 years would win second prize in a local school competition. I want to see the paper that won the first prize!
 
  • #22
Someone thankfully found more on the solution Ray found, including the ongoing discussion of the derivation, including Maple code, but I can't directly link it here till I post 10 comments, so Google

teen_solves_Newtons_300yearold_riddle_an/c4sxd91

and the discussion thread at reddit will be the top hit.

The solution is kind of simple once you see it. ^_^
 
  • #23
HallsofIvy said:
What really seems strange to me is that the solution to a problem proposed by Newton and unsolved by mathematicians and physicists for 300 years would win second prize in a local school competition. I want to see the paper that won the first prize!
It seems that the first prize was given to a student who supposedly solved the problem of relativistic ray-tracing. It seems that either there are a lot of groundbreaking developments going on that no one's heard about, or the German competition judges are not judging very well, or the media is blowing things way out of proportion.
 
  • #24
lugita15 said:
the media is blowing things way out of proportion.

I'm for this choice.
 
  • #25
On reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/u74no/supposedly_this_is_a_new_formula_for_calculating/

(Sorry, can't post links, add "http")

there's a link to a picture of him holding up a particular formula. This seems to be a constant of the motion for a projectile moving in uniform gravity and quadratic drag.

As is pointed in the comments thread, that particular formula is (a) easy to derive, (b) known since at least 1860.

On reddit, this particular formula seems to be taken to be the full extent of his solution. However, I don't think that's true.

There's a picture of him standing in front of his poster:

http://www.jugend-forscht-sachsen.de/images/2012/index/image3.jpg

The section he's pointing at seems to have the title "Lösung", so the two equations there are presumably his solution.

You can see that
(i) the solution involves two formulae
(ii) they're both fairly long.
(iii) they're both of the form LHS = numerator/denominator.

The particular first integral linked on reddit appears just to the right of his hand. Apart from the actual solution equations, this is the only boxed equation visible on the poster. Thus, he clearly considers that equation important.

Also of interest is the top part of the poster, which seems to be a historical review of the problem. With some intelligent guessing, one can problably work out some of the capitalized names, there. It might be interesting to know to what extent Mr Ray was aware of previous work.

Pure speculation below: This boy has reduced the problem to quadrature, and as an important first step, found a particular first integral to the equation. Finding such a first integral does require ingenuity, for which the boy should rightly be proud, but alas, it's not new.

Depending on "analytical solution", reducing a differential equation to quadrature might or might not count. This ambiguity led someone, somewhere, believe that Mr Ray found something genuinely novel, and then it only take the combined hysteria of the world's news outlets to blow it way out of proportion.

As HallsofIvy, the fact that he only won second prize doesn't really seem compatible with finding a solution, to an important problem, which has eluded physicists and mathematicians for 300 years. Perhaps the jury was well aware that Mr Ray's feat was impressive, but not quite as groundbreaking as the media seem to portray.
 
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  • #26
I found a high-res picture of the poster image!

http://i47.tinypic.com/2v0oco8.jpg

So his solution is

<br /> u(t) = \frac{u_0}{1 + \alpha V_0 t - \tfrac 1{2!}\alpha gt^2 \sin \theta + \tfrac 1{3!}\left(\alpha g^2 \cos^2 \theta - \alpha^2 g V_0 \sin \theta\right) t^3 + \cdots}
<br /> v(t) = \frac{v_0 - g\left[t + \tfrac 1{2!}\alpha V_0 t^2 - \tfrac{1}{3!}\alpha g t^3 \sin \theta + \tfrac 1{4!}\left(\alpha g^2 V_0 \cos^2 \theta - \alpha^2 g V_0 \sin \theta\right)t^4 + \cdots \right]}<br /> {1 + \alpha V_0 t - \tfrac 1{2!} \alpha gt^2 \sin \theta + \tfrac 1{3!}\left(\alpha g^2 V_0 \cos^2 \theta - \alpha^2 g V_0 \sin \theta\right)t^3 + \cdots}

Thus, he has found the velocity in terms of Taylor series in time. Nothing revolutionary, in other words.

The poster also claims that the constant of the motion he found is a "fundamentale neue Eigenschaft", but as pointed out in the reddit thread, it has been known since at least 1860.

Of course, I don't blame him. What he did was very impressive, but hopefully he has learned to be more careful before claiming new solutions to old problem.
 
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  • #27
Ayre said:
Of course, I don't blame him. What he did was very impressive, but hopefully he has learned to be more careful before claiming new solutions to old problem.
How similar were the claims he made to what the media made?
 
  • #28
Hurkyl said:
How similar were the claims he made to what the media made?

Well, they're certainly not as hyperbolic.

Certainly, his poster claims that he has discovered something new. It says, for instance, ""erstmals vollanalytische Lösung eines lange ungelösted Problems", i.e. "first fully analytical solution of a long unsolved problem" (my translation). I guess there was a misunderstanding, and he didn't realize that when people say that no analytical solution of this problem has been found, series solutions do not count.

Of course, for all we know, the boy himself knows the merits of his work very well. It might well just be a parent who pushed him to use more grandiose language in his poster than was justified.

Also this poster only shows one of problems he solved. It could, of course, be that the work on the other problem is truly groundbreaking. But I have my doubts.
 
  • #29
Thank You very much Ayre. I am glad that you shred some lights on what he actually did. Without, that verification, we can not give him any credit.

I see media has misunderstood, as sometimes seen for scientific journalism. (Or maybe he made wrong claim - although chances are low). Probably the best title would be "First analytical series solution ..."
 
  • #30
What are the assumptions for the drag of this problem? -kv^3 ?? squared?? Also, I have read that this has something to do with an object bouncing of a wall. Hmmm can anyone post the original problem in differential equation form?


Maybe I can solve it today and create another Newton-Leibniz controversy. I am Mexican so it would be awesome.
 
  • #31
Kholdstare said:
Thank You very much Ayre. I am glad that you shred some lights on what he actually did. Without, that verification, we can not give him any credit.

I see media has misunderstood, as sometimes seen for scientific journalism. (Or maybe he made wrong claim - although chances are low). Probably the best title would be "First analytical series solution ..."

The problem is that this is most certainly not the first analytical series solution. If I have time later, I might go hunt for some references, but solving differential equations by series has been part of the standard toolbox for a very, very long time.

It could be, to give him the benefit of the doubt again, that his particular series solution have practical advantages over other series solutions. For instance, his series might be converging really rapidly, providing thus more accurate algorithms than was possible before.

But this is not something he's claiming, as far as I can tell. And again, it's very unlikely that he's stumbled onto something nobody has thought of before. Back in the 18th and 19th centuries, a lot of people were very busy hurling artillery rounds at each other; presumably, without computer, calculating artillery tables was a laborious task, and much work would have gone into finding good practical methods of solving the differential equations.

Euler1707 said:
What are the assumptions for the drag of this problem? -kv^3 ?? squared?? Also, I have read that this has something to do with an object bouncing of a wall. Hmmm can anyone post the original problem in differential equation form?

There are two distinct problems.

The first problem is to find the motion of a point particle traveling in uniform gravity, with drag proportional to the square of its speed. The governing equations, as they appear in the poster I linked earlier, are

\dot u(t) + \alpha u(t) \sqrt{u(t)^2 + v(t)^2} = 0 \\<br /> \dot v(t) + \alpha v(t) \sqrt{u(t)^2 + v(t)^2} = -g

Here, u and v har the horisontal and vertical components of the velocity of the particle, g is the gravitational acceleration, and alpha is a coefficient of drag, so that the deceleration due to drag is alpha*(u²+v²). The initial conditions are that v(0) = v_0 > 0, and u(0) = u_0 ≠ 0.The second problem seems to be about particle collision. I haven't found any information on this beyond the German abstract posted earlier in the thread, nor do I know enough about the subject to make an intelligent guess.
 
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  • #32
In 2010 I have published (Military Academy of Lisbon) a little paper on the problem, with the drag force quadratic in the speed, and solve it numerically for a standard rifle projectile.
My paper:
Ferreira, R. (2010). Movimento de um Projéctil de G3: Força de Arrasto no Quadrado da Velocidade. in Proelium – Revista da Academia Militar, VI Série, nº 13.

When the paper was almost done, I discovered a 2007 paper that claims to have found an analytic solution. Here it is the reference:
Yabugarbagea, K., Yamagarbagea, M. & Tsuboi, K. (2007). “An analytic solution of projectile motion with the quadratic resistance law using the homotopy analysis method”. Journal of Physics A: Mathematical and Theoretical, Vol. 40, pp. 8403–8416.
 
  • #33
m2840 said:
I
When the paper was almost done, I discovered a 2007 paper that claims to have found an analytic solution. Here it is the reference:
Yabugarbagea, K., Yamagarbagea, M. & Tsuboi, K. (2007). “An analytic solution of projectile motion with the quadratic resistance law using the homotopy analysis method”. Journal of Physics A: Mathematical and Theoretical, Vol. 40, pp. 8403–8416.

Good catch!

This reference also appears on Mr Ray's poster, so he must have been aware of it. Though ge describes it as a "semianalytische exakte Lösung", or a "semi-analytical exact solution".

I only glanced through the paper (link), but it seems to only give power series solutions, together with recursive formulae for the coefficients. So these authors also seem to be using the term "analytical solution" as something distinct from "closed-form solution".

Furthermore, Mr Ray's solution appears to have terms of type similar-looking to the ones in this paper. Perhaps he did something similar, modified it in someway promoting it from "semi-analytical" to "analytical"?
 
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  • #34
m2840 said:
In 2010 I have published (Military Academy of Lisbon) a little paper on the problem, with the drag force quadratic in the speed, and solve it numerically for a standard rifle projectile.
My paper:
Ferreira, R. (2010). Movimento de um Projéctil de G3: Força de Arrasto no Quadrado da Velocidade. in Proelium – Revista da Academia Militar, VI Série, nº 13.

When the paper was almost done, I discovered a 2007 paper that claims to have found an analytic solution. Here it is the reference:
Yabugarbagea, K., Yamagarbagea, M. & Tsuboi, K. (2007). “An analytic solution of projectile motion with the quadratic resistance law using the homotopy analysis method”. Journal of Physics A: Mathematical and Theoretical, Vol. 40, pp. 8403–8416.



Very nice, I have seen similar problems. I posted here once that I could not solve a trivial problem where the drag varied as the cube of the velocity.

The only way I could solve it was using a Taylor expansion. I plotted but the solution curved seemed a little odd. I could not find a physical justification for such peculiar curve.

I would love to read your paper.
 
  • #35
Ayre said:
The problem is that this is most certainly not the first analytical series solution. If I have time later, I might go hunt for some references, but solving differential equations by series has been part of the standard toolbox for a very, very long time.

It could be, to give him the benefit of the doubt again, that his particular series solution have practical advantages over other series solutions. For instance, his series might be converging really rapidly, providing thus more accurate algorithms than was possible before.

But this is not something he's claiming, as far as I can tell. And again, it's very unlikely that he's stumbled onto something nobody has thought of before. Back in the 18th and 19th centuries, a lot of people were very busy hurling artillery rounds at each other; presumably, without computer, calculating artillery tables was a laborious task, and much work would have gone into finding good practical methods of solving the differential equations.



There are two distinct problems.

The first problem is to find the motion of a point particle traveling in uniform gravity, with drag proportional to the square of its speed. The governing equations, as they appear in the poster I linked earlier, are

\dot u(t) + \alpha u(t) \sqrt{u(t)^2 + v(t)^2} = 0 \\<br /> \dot v(t) + \alpha v(t) \sqrt{u(t)^2 + v(t)^2} = -g

Here, u and v har the horisontal and vertical components of the velocity of the particle, g is the gravitational acceleration, and alpha is a coefficient of drag, so that the deceleration due to drag is alpha*(u²+v²). The initial conditions are that v(0) = v_0 > 0, and u(0) = u_0 ≠ 0.


The second problem seems to be about particle collision. I haven't found any information on this beyond the German abstract posted earlier in the thread, nor do I know enough about the subject to make an intelligent guess.

Thank you very much for this!
 
  • #36
Sorry if I'm saying something wrong, but I think that the wrong formula is being discussed in this thread.

I can't post links because of forum permissions but, in reddit they are talking about the equation on the image with the name 1MAT_67_download.jpg
 
  • #37
fornos said:
Sorry if I'm saying something wrong, but I think that the wrong formula is being discussed in this thread.

I can't post links because of forum permissions but, in reddit they are talking about the equation on the image with the name 1MAT_67_download.jpg

Well, I think they're the mistaken ones.

https://www.jugend-forscht.de/images/1MAT_67_download.jpg is the image you're talking about it. If you look at it, it's clear that it's just a photo-op-type thing. Somebody decided that it would be good to have a photo of the guy holding up an equation, and that was provided. The photo is clearly not part of his presentation of his achievements (if it was, you'd think it'd explain the notation), but just a photo.

On the other hand, his poster clearly is meant to present his solution. In the poster, the equation discussed on reddit does appear, but it's clear that it's not the actual solution to the equation. Instead, there's a big section called "Lösung" (Lösung means solution in German), containing only two equation. It's clear that those are the solution.

I see now that the photo of the poster uploaded on Tinypic was deleted. I've re-uploaded the poster to

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8750/mshouryyaray.jpg

The image originally comes from the Jugend Forscht website, bundled together with other photos (http://jugend-forscht-sachsen.de/files/file/2012/Jufo%202012%20Siegerbilder.7z).
 
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  • #38
So do we all agree that he hasn't actually found an closed form solution to Newton's problem?

If you allow yourself to put a '+ ...' in your solution (as we see in the picture) then surely it is pretty easy to come up with a solution to almost any set of differential equations, by using a Taylor expansion.
What has he done which counts as 'solving' the problem?
 
  • #39
Ayre said:
Well, I think they're the mistaken ones.

https://www.jugend-forscht.de/images/1MAT_67_download.jpg is the image you're talking about it. If you look at it, it's clear that it's just a photo-op-type thing. Somebody decided that it would be good to have a photo of the guy holding up an equation, and that was provided. The photo is clearly not part of his presentation of his achievements (if it was, you'd think it'd explain the notation), but just a photo.

I'm not so sure of that. If you look at the high-res pic that you posted, the equation you mentioned as being a "photo op" is also displayed on the poster, and actually a little further down, leading me to believe that the first set of series solutions are there as background for his new discovery.
 
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  • #40
If anyone is still interested in this story then this blog ( //thorehusfeldt.net/2012/06/05/shouryya-ray-closing-remarks/ ) discusses the editing of the story on Wikipedia and gives a link ( //tu-dresden.de/die_tu_dresden/fakultaeten/fakultaet_mathematik_und_naturwissenschaften/fachrichtung_mathematik/institute/analysis/chill/dateien/CommentsRay.pdf ) to a detailed analysis by two TU Dresden professors who have actually seen Shouryya Ray's work.

Executive summary: it is a remarkable piece of work for a 16-year old, but the results were basically already known to experts. The newspaper reports were inaccurate.

NB: I would have included proper URL links in this post, but the forum software won't let me until I've reached 10 posts.
 
  • #41
martinh said:
If anyone is still interested in this story then this blog ( //thorehusfeldt.net/2012/06/05/shouryya-ray-closing-remarks/ ) discusses the editing of the story on Wikipedia and gives a link ( //tu-dresden.de/die_tu_dresden/fakultaeten/fakultaet_mathematik_und_naturwissenschaften/fachrichtung_mathematik/institute/analysis/chill/dateien/CommentsRay.pdf ) to a detailed analysis by two TU Dresden professors who have actually seen Shouryya Ray's work.

Executive summary: it is a remarkable piece of work for a 16-year old, but the results were basically already known to experts. The newspaper reports were inaccurate.

NB: I would have included proper URL links in this post, but the forum software won't let me until I've reached 10 posts.

Sounds like he did some amazing and ingenious work, some of which seemed completely new to him, although all the things he did were known to be true. And the claim that he solved for the velocity explicitly is plainly false. Thanks for the update!

I see a bright future ahead for this kid. Wish I was this smart.
 
  • #42
middleCmusic said:
I'm not so sure of that. If you look at the high-res pic that you posted, the equation you mentioned as being a "photo op" is also displayed on the poster, and actually a little further down, leading me to believe that the first set of series solutions are there as background for his new discovery.

It might well be that the reddit photo is what he thought was new and ingenious (it is quite ingenious indeed), so in that sense you may be right.

But I don't think it's fair to call that equation his solution, given that his poster has another section with a big "Lösung" headline, with "Lösung" meaning precisely solution.
 
  • #43
These comments on Shouryya Ray’s work are made on the basis of the posts that I have read on the following websites:

1. //thorehusfeldt.net/2012/05/29/shouryya-ray-and-the-press/
2. //thorehusfeldt.net/2012/06/05/shouryya-ray-closing-remarks/
3. //tu-dresden.de/die_tu_dresden/fakultaeten/fakultaet_mathematik_und_naturwissenschaften/fachrichtung_mathematik/institute/analysis/chill/dateien/CommentsRay.pdf
4. //physics.stackexchange.com/questions/28931/what-are-the-precise-statements-by-shouryya-ray-of-particle-dynamics-problems-po
5. //math.stackexchange.com/questions/150242/teenager-solves-Newton-dynamics-problem-where-is-the-paper
6. //www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/u7551/teen_solves_Newtons_300yearold_riddle_an/
7. //www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=609259
8. //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Shouryya_Ray

After going through the posts and comments in these websites and following them very carefully, it is apparent that the final comments on most of the websites are made on the basis of the post, “Comments on some recent work by Shouryya Ray” by Prof. Dr. Ralph Chill and Prof. Dr. Jürgen Voigt (Technische Universität Dresden - TUD), dated June 4, 2012.

I am, therefore, writing the following comments on basis of this post (also including partly the history of comments mentioned on the websites above) and I must confess that I am not that fortunate as the TUD professors who were actually shown the work:

1. In the initial stage, most of the posts assumed that the conserved quantity of motion (which the boy displays in his hand in one of the pictures that can be found on the web) is his final solution and concluded that there is nothing new in it since many other researchers (for example Parker, Ref#5 of TUD post) have already found that relation. And of course, most people on these forums seems to have felt relaxed (or happy) about the fact that nothing new has been done by the boy, which they could not do themselves. This apprehension will be repeated throughout the text since the comments that I am going to make here should have come to others’ mind as well, but it happened otherwise.

2. The story (or the investigation) did not end (or stop) there and we came to know more about it. After having a very careful look into his other posters, his final solution was found in the form of series. Thanks to the people who carried out this exercise. And many people commented that series solutions are not considered analytic and hence he did not find any analytical solution! I am not raising the question that if one finds a solution in terms of sine, cosine, exponential, error function, or Bessel function (I can continue with the list, but, I guess the idea will be conveyed with these few examples), whether it would be legitimate to claim that he has an analytical solution. Thanks to the post of the two TUD professors, who unambiguously explained why Shouryya Ray’s solution can be considered as analytical solution.

3. The next obvious question that would come to one’s mind is: Is it the first ever EXPLICIT analytical solution for the problem of projectile motion under quadratic drag? The learned community is in the opinion: it is not, since many people found this solution before! This, according to me, requires a very careful look, on which the EXPERTS clearly think that they already have done it. Consider the work of Parker (Ref#5 of TUD post): he only obtained an implicit expression (Eq.(5) of TUD post) and nobody knows why he could not proceed further. This point, although pointed out by some of the members on these forums, was generally ignored by many others. Perhaps that once again, helps one to feel comfortable!

4. Some people, on different sites, mentioned the work of Yabugarbagea et al. (Ref#8 of TUD post) and commented that the series solution of Shouryya Ray was already found by these authors and his solutions are not new! Once again a point to feel relaxed - nothing new has been done which WE could not do! Some of the posts, however, mentioned that Shouryya Ray has the references of both Parker and Yabugarbagea et al. on his posters and hence he must be aware of and have already gone through them: therefore, he must have done something new. Good thinking! I, however, seriously think that nobody possibly went through the paper of Yabugarbagea et al. Had they gone through it, they would have discovered that Yabugarbagea et al. obtained their solution with the homotopy analysis method and their series converges only for a specific range of homotopy parameter, which on one hand, depends on the problem specification and on the other hand, cannot be determined a priori. Thus, I think, the solution of Yabugarbagea et al. cannot be considered truly analytic. Most importantly, none of the experts ever reported that the solution of Shouryya Ray can be easily derived from the solution of Yabugarbagea et al. (one can try his luck - my best wishes). And still, one has to believe that the boy has done NOTHING new as that makes us feel relaxed!

5. Some other people referred to a book from 1860 (written by Isidore Didion), which is written in French. And I guess, only a very few have really dared to go through it (may be due to the language barrier). If one goes through the book, he will find that there is definitely no explicit solution.

6. Let me now come to the 4th. page of the post by the two TUD professors. Let us focus our attention on the text at the beginning of the page. It says: “In the context of Shouryya Ray’s work it was an unfortunate circumstances, that a recent article from 2007 claims that no analytic solution of problem (1) was known, or that it was known only in special cases, namely for falling objects. This might have misled Shouryya Ray who was also not aware of the classical theory of ordinary differential equations.” While the part of the last sentence is easily understandable that he may not be aware of the classical theory of ODEs (since he is only a 16 year old school boy and it is not expected of him), the first part is completely incomprehensible! It makes you think on the basis of which evidence the authors made this remark! At least, the literature reviews carried out by so many experts on the scientific forums could not find any evidence of explicit yet truly (whose solution or convergence does not depend upon the choice of additional parameter) analytical solution of the problem. Had they found some, they must have reported them! Most importantly, the authors of TUD also could not provide any evidence in support of the statement. Therefore, this makes one to think: what led the authors to make such remarks?

7. Perhaps the answer lies on the two statements, made by the TUD professors. One is on page#3, which reads: “Having these existence theorems at hand, the coefficients ... ... may also be obtained from equation (3) or (4) by successively differentiating the equations and thus obtaining a recursion formula for the higher order derivatives of $\psi$ at 0.” This statement means that the expert mathematicians could find the solution very easily, but, most unfortunately, the available evidence shows that they DID NOT find one, possibly due to the reason best known to them! The second statement is on page#4, which reads: “Actually, many mathematicians have considered the problem of projectile motion in air over a long time.” Once again, that also does not imply that any mathematician has actually solved it explicitly! It must be recognized that there is a BIG difference between “could be solved” and “has been solved”. To that extent, I sincerely think that there is no point in contesting the comments of Yabugarbagea et al. (Ref#9 of TUD post) unless one has the existence of definite evidence; they must have made this statement after carefully going through the literature. I thought that the mathematicians believe on the logic and the proof of existence the most!

8. I strongly believe that on the basis of the evidence available to the authors (two TUD professors) they could only make the following statement: “According to the best of our knowledge (due to whatever reason) Shouryya Ray’s solution appears to be the FIRST EVER, clean, explicit, truly analytical solution for the problem of projectile motion under quadratic drag.”

9. The most dangerous statement comes in the last sentence of the last-but-one paragraph: “Nevertheless, all his steps are basically known to experts, and we emphasize that he did not solve an open problem posed by Newton”. I guess, by the words, “an open problem posed by Newton”, the authors actually meant problem (1) in their text - at least that is the way their statement has been interpreted by the learned scientific community! Wonderful! What a logical conclusion! What an emphatic statement! As if, it came as a natural consequence of the existence of a lot of documentary evidence! This is the most “catchy” statement which has almost immediately caught the attention - once again to feel RELAXED - Nothing has been really done which WE could not do! What assumption could be behind this statement? It must be clear from the statement itself. Since all the steps are basically known to experts, does it necessarily mean that they MUST have solved it? Extending this extremely sophisticated logic (assumption, to be precise), one could easily conclude: No one can solve any unsolved problem using known mathematical tools - as that will be known to the expert mathematicians and if that is known, they must have solved it - it does not require any evidence - this is BY DEFAULT)! Here I really felt annoyed and thought of writing these comments.

10. The TRUTH probably is: although Shouryya Ray did not use any novel method for solution (which can never be proved to be essential for finding a new solution) it does not necessarily imply that he did not find a new solution! Question is then how this statement should be changed? In my opinion it can only read: “We emphasize that he did not use any new mathematical tool that was not known to the experts in order to solve an open problem posed by Newton.” By the way, I believe that problem (1) was not actually posed by Newton - he framed his laws of motion, which forms the basis of problem (1) and also proposed the quadratic drag law - like many of his other extraordinary findings (e.g., law of viscosity, law of cooling, etc.).

11. With all said and done, I feel that the media hype was surely not created by the boy, but, according to the status of the current knowledge, it appears that the boy did not claim anything incorrect. I guess, any senior university professor (other than mathematicians of course!) would have published article(s) on it, if he would have found out the same solution. In the present context, this has been done by a 16 year old school boy - possibly that is the real sensation - not the mathematical complexity of the problem. Hence, I believe, due respect should be given to him even though we understand the sentiment: any expert mathematician could solve his first problem without any trouble. Let us happily forget about the second problem! After all, that will keep us more relaxed and comfortable - NOTHING new has happened! Many of the posts in the scientific forums, including those on Wikipedia page, appear to be YELLOWER than the YELLOWEST journalism on this topic that could have been made by a non-scientific journalist on a scientific topic.

12. Unfortunately, it seems that to know more about the work, we have to really wait for sometime and expect that this boy, along with his supervisor(s), possibly publish articles in archival journals. I am writing this text with a hope that this boy reads this and feels encouraged!

I believe that this SMALL(!) text/ post would help the experts in correcting the wrong and caustic comments made before by them, iff (it is not a spelling mistake - I guess, I am posting it to people who are interested in mathematics) the intention is to serve science and not to belittle or malign the effort of the boy, who probably thought the world of science is really CLEAN (which most of us know is, unfortunately, not the case)! If, however, it is a question of megalomania, no one can possibly help. I am waiting for the corrections to those posts or their removal!
 
  • #44
Is there anyway to read over the link to "An analytic solution of projectile motion with the quadratic resistance law using the homotopy analysis method" for free?
 
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