Materials and Eletromagnetic Waves

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interaction of electromagnetic waves with materials, specifically in the context of microwaves and their effect on food. Participants explore concepts related to oscillation, secondary wave generation, and the behavior of molecules under electromagnetic fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether food in a microwave becomes a source of secondary waves and if we are consuming electromagnetic waves.
  • Another participant clarifies that secondary waves are generated only while the incident electromagnetic waves are present, and they cease once the incident field is removed.
  • A participant raises a concern about the duration of oscillation in materials and the energy associated with it, questioning where the energy goes after the waves stop impacting the material.
  • A detailed explanation is provided regarding how microwaves cause molecules in food to polarize and oscillate, leading to the generation of displacement currents and secondary fields, with references to Debye relaxation as a model for understanding this behavior.
  • The explanation notes that relaxation times for molecules, such as water, are relatively quick, suggesting that the effects of the microwaves dissipate rapidly after the source is turned off.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of secondary wave generation and the persistence of oscillation in materials. There is no consensus on the broader implications of these phenomena, particularly regarding the consumption of electromagnetic waves.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention technical concepts like displacement currents and Debye relaxation, but the discussion lacks specific numerical values or detailed experimental data to support claims about relaxation times or energy dissipation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying electromagnetism, material science, or food science, particularly in understanding the interaction between electromagnetic waves and matter.

tbfranks
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Hello everybody!

I have an question, that seems silly, but i really need know that.

When a material is subject to waves, he starts to oscillate in the frequency of the wave and this material becomes a source of secondary waves, this justifies including the reflection process of the waves, ok?

finaly my question: when we are warming the food in the microwave we are putting the food to vibrate at a frequency of microwave. This food would be a source of secondary waves?

Are we eating eletromagnetic waves?
How i can prove if is a lie?

thanks,
[]'s
 
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The currents that excite the secondary waves only exist due to the incident electromagnetic waves. As soon as you cease inpinging the material with an incident field, the material will cease emitting the corresponding secondary waves.
 
ok,

but when the waves are focusing on the material, it is nothing to vibrate? oscillation must permenacer awhile before the damping is not it? Where does this energy?

thanks
 
I do not understand your statement here.

When microwaves inpinge upon a food item, the incident electric fields cause molecules in the food to polarize into weak dipole moments. These dipole moments align with the incident electric field. Since the field is oscillating, the dipole moments oscillate too, causing the molecule to rotate and thus vibrate. The movement of these dipole moments gives rise to what is called a displacement current (as opposed to conduction currents which are conduction electrons moving in response to the fields). This displacement current gives rise to the secondary fields.

It is true that there is a relaxation time for the molecules when we turn off the field. A more technical explanation can be found by looking into Debye relaxation. Debye relaxation, amongst many other models like Cole-Cole, is a way of estimating the time-dependent permittivity of a medium in response to a time varying signal. So if we turn on a source and polarize the material and then turn it off, the polarization of the material will persist and slowly go away. Of course there are many complicated methods that this can happen and the Debye relaxation is probably one of the simplest.

However, needless to say, these relaxation times are very fast. I do not recall offhand what the relaxation time of water is even though I just saw a presentation on this the other week. But it is rather quick and the momentary displacement currents that arise as the polarized molecules resettle would die out very quickly after you turn off the microwave source.
 

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