8.9 earthquake in Japan: tsunami warnings

[Astronuc]

@dlgoff: They seem to be concerned about one plant in particular, but... and I think Astronuc is best suited to answer this... would even a serious flood prevent a SCRAM?

As far as I know, the units were scrammed as the systems are designed to do so.

One of the units has some problems with its cooling system, which would be the Residual Heat Removal system. The RHR removes decay heat from the core after the plant is shutdown, particularly when the units are depressurized. Even if there is a minor deviation from the expected or anticipated operation, staff will take the precautionary step of alerting the local government of a problem.

Update:

Cabinet official: Efforts to cool a reactor at a nuclear power plant "are not going as planned"

Apparently Units 1 and 2 at Fukushima Daiichi (Fukushima Plant 1) have lost power. They should be powered by Emergency Diesel Generators, which should provide power to cooling pumps. It's possible the EDGs and/or pumps were damaged.

In theory, they should be able to use natural circulation.

 

[nismaratwork]

As far as I know, the units were scrammed as the systems are designed to do so.

One of the units has some problems with its cooling system, which would be the Residual Heat Removal system. The RHR removes decay heat from the core after the plant is shutdown, particularly when the units are depressurized. Even if there is a minor deviation from the expected or anticipated operation, staff will take the precautionary step of alerting the local government of a problem.

That certainly makes sense... so the reaction is already dead, but they're concerned about the remote possibility of... what exactly? A rupture in the reactor vessels being contaminated with seawater, and visa versa?

I assumed that pumping a load of neutron toxins, control rods, etc... into a reactor was pretty useful at keeping anything worse than radiological contamination from occurring... maybe a bad assumption.

 

[Astronuc]

That certainly makes sense... so the reaction is already dead, but they're concerned about the remote possibility of... what exactly? A rupture in the reactor vessels being contaminated with seawater, and visa versa?

I assumed that pumping a load of neutron toxins, control rods, etc... into a reactor was pretty useful at keeping anything worse than radiological contamination from occurring... maybe a bad assumption.

They would be concerned about maintaining coolability of the cores according to their mandatory requirements. They should have a plan for "what if".

It appears from this article that Units 1, 2 and 3 were operating, but shutdown because of the quake.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/11/uk-japan-quake-reactor-idUSLNE72A06L20110311

The emergency power system for Units 1 and 2 failed. Hopefully they can restore the system, or use contingency plans.

Without power, the would be concerned about the coolant getting too hot, which means higher than normally allowed, but which still could be within design parameters for emergency situations. However, we prefer not to allow the core to get outside of normal or anticipated conditions.

Basically, they don't want the primary cooling systems to over-pressurize.

 

[nismaratwork]

They would be concerned about maintaining coolability of the cores according to their mandatory requirements. They should have a plan for "what if".

It appears from this article that Units 1, 2 and 3 were operating, but shutdown because of the quake.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/11/uk-japan-quake-reactor-idUSLNE72A06L20110311

The emergency power system for Units 1 and 2 failed. Hopefully they can restore the system, or use contingency plans.

Without power, the would be concerned about the coolant getting too hot, which means higher than normally allowed, but which still could be within design parameters for emergency situations. However, we prefer not to allow the core to get outside of normal or anticipated conditions.

Basically, they don't want the primary cooling systems to over-pressurize.

I'm sorry, did you just say, in a very academic and clear way I might add... that they'd be worried about a coolant rupture and subsequent leak? Ouch...

I can see why plan for the worst, hope for the best makes sense in plant engineering.

Fire broke out at a second facility, the Onagawa plant, but crews were able to put that fire out, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Now it seems the IAEA is concerned that one of the reactor vessels may be compromised, but that makes no sense given the reports that there is no radiation leak. I'd assume that kind of thing would be rather obvious from aerial/satellite surveillance?

 

[Borg]

For those with loved ones in that area, Google has deployed it http://japan.person-finder.appspot.com/?lang=en" tool.

 

[Borg]

Unbelievable images. Sendai was hit extremely hard.
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2011/03/world/hires.japan.quake/index.html"

 

[Evo]

Reports say 88,000 people are missing, with 200-300 bodies already found.

 

[Astronuc]

I'm sorry, did you just say, in a very academic and clear way I might add... that they'd be worried about a coolant rupture and subsequent leak? Ouch...

I can see why plan for the worst, hope for the best makes sense in plant engineering.

No, I only indicated what the concern would be if the core and primary system heated to the point that the primary system would be over-pressurized. Outside of the primary system, which includes the pressure vessels that contains the core, is the containment building. The containment building is designed to contain the contents of the primary system, and radioactive material, in the even the primary system leaks. However, we prefer not to allow the primary system to be compromised.

Now it seems the IAEA is concerned that one of the reactor vessels may be compromised, but that makes no sense given the reports that there is no radiation leak. I'd assume that kind of thing would be rather obvious from aerial/satellite surveillance?

I have not yet heard any report on the integrity of the pressure vessels of priamry system of any of the units. I would not be obvious from satellite or air.

I am waiting for reliable information.

This map shows the locations of Japanese NPPs.
http://www.insc.anl.gov/pwrmaps/map/japan.php

The Fukushima plants 1 and 2 were the closest, but Tokai and Onagwa are also affected. They should have all units shut down.

Fukushima Daiichi (Plant 1) has 6 units, and Fukushima Daini (Plant 2) has 4 units. Tokai has 2 units and Onagawa has 3 units.

 

[Astronuc]

Reports say 88,000 people are missing, with 200-300 bodies already found.

Just around the Sendai city area:

Police said 200 to 300 bodies were found in the northeastern coastal city of Sendai, the city in Miyagi prefecture, or state, closest to the epicenter. Another 137 were confirmed killed, with 531 people missing. Police also said 627 people were injured.

. . . .

Many coastal villages and towns were inundated by flooding. Thousands might have drowned, and

A large section of Kesennuma, a town of 70,000 people in Miyagi, burned furiously into the night with no apparent hope of being extinguished, public broadcaster NHK said.

Clearly, it is very bad and the death toll could be quite high.

 

[Evo]

An 8.9 magnitude earthquake off the coast of Northeast Japan spawned a ferocious tsunami that's caused massive destruction; flattening whole cities, starting raging fires, and killing hundreds. Nearly 88,000 people are reported missing, according to the official Kyodo news agency.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenvoy/20110311/ts_yblog_theenvoy/watch-raw-footage-of-the-japan-earthquake-and-tsunami

I don't know how they are making such a calculation.

http://onespot.wsj.com/small-business/2011/03/11/36a08/report-88000-people-are-missing-in-japan

According to the Kyodo News Agency, via BBC, the official missing persons tally is around 88,000.

Let's hope it's nowhere that high.

 

[Astronuc]

That's probably an estimate based on the population of towns and villages along the affected coastline.

Tohoku Region (most affected) - http://gojapan.about.com/cs/japanmaps/l/blprefecturemap.htm
2. Aomori
4. Iwate
6. Miyagi
7. Fukushima

 

[Lancelot59]

I wonder if the wave will reach north america.

 

[Astronuc]

I wonder if the wave will reach north america.

Waves have already passed Hawaii, and they will hit coasts of Alaska, British Columbia, Washington, Oregon, California, and points south. Some of the energy will dissipate across the ocean.

http://ptwc.weather.gov/

We're still waiting for reliable reports on the situation at Fukushima Daiichi, Units 1 & 2.

Meanwhile - http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Massive_earthquake_hits_Japan_1103111.html

Later, Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) reported that emergency diesel generators started as expected at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, but then stopped after one hour, leaving units 1, 2 and 3 with no power for important cooling functions. This led the company to notify the government of an 'emergency' situation, which allows local authorities to take additional precautionary measures. An evacuation has been ordered of over 1000 people living within three kilometres, while engineers worked to restore power.

Almost nine hours later, an announcement from the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry said that three of four mobile power supplies had arrived at Fukushima Daiichi and cables were being set up to supply emergency power. Other power modules were in transit by air.

. . . .

It sounds like they are dealing appropriately with the situation, but one can be sure that there will an investigation as why the EDGs stopped after one hour. The site must have an independent on-site power supply in case of loss of off-site power.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/2011/tsunamiupdate.html

 

[lisab]

I wonder if the wave will reach north america.

Yes, there are reports coming in now. Nothing like what hit Japan, though.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/03/11/1579884/some-calif-beaches-closed-due.html

 

[elabed haidar]

GOd be with he japanese people

 

[nismaratwork]

No, I only indicated what the concern would be if the core and primary system heated to the point that the primary system would be over-pressurized. Outside of the primary system, which includes the pressure vessels that contains the core, is the containment building. The containment building is designed to contain the contents of the primary system, and radioactive material, in the even the primary system leaks. However, we prefer not to allow the primary system to be compromised.

I have not yet heard any report on the integrity of the pressure vessels of priamry system of any of the units. I would not be obvious from satellite or air.

I am waiting for reliable information.

This map shows the locations of Japanese NPPs.
http://www.insc.anl.gov/pwrmaps/map/japan.php

The Fukushima plants 1 and 2 were the closest, but Tokai and Onagwa are also affected. They should have all units shut down.

Fukushima Daiichi (Plant 1) has 6 units, and Fukushima Daini (Plant 2) has 4 units. Tokai has 2 units and Onagawa has 3 units.

By all accounts, the fires and damage was largely to the control building, and the reactor vessels are still secure. Given how earthquake-conscious the Japanese are, I'd bet on integrity holding. If you do get reliable info beyond this, would you please post it here if you can?

Thanks for the added information btw.

@Evo: This is horrific... 8.9... that's so much energy being released in such a short time. I saw the images of those wave carrying debris on fire, over farmland... I actually feel a bit choked up.

On one bright side for me at least, my friend was on a trip to Germany, but he no longer has a home.

I'm not the praying type, but... my hopes are certainly for the best possible outcome.

 

[Astronuc]

A reasonably good article on the tsunami risk.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10711871

There is even a Tsunami threat map.

 

[nismaratwork]

My knowledge of seismology is about 0.00000000000000000...00..01

Is this an ongoing and connected phenomenon of multiple quakes including NZ, or is this coincidence? Is this in some way connected or likely to initiate a major event elsewhere on the RoF, such as Cali?

 

[DevilsAvocado]

The site must have an independent on-site power supply in case of loss of off-site power.

I don’t know if this is a "rumor", but I heard on BBC that they lost normal power to cool the hot (but shoot down) core, and then tried to start the diesel reserve and that failed too, and now they are running the cooling system on batteries(?)... which will run out sooner or later...?

 

[DevilsAvocado]

This is horrific... 8.9... that's so much energy being released in such a short time.

This is a "monster". I heard that a "box" of the tectonics sized 500 km x 100 km basically JUMPED 10 meters in a very short time!

I’m glad you found your friend... phew...

 

[nismaratwork]

This is a "monster". I heard that a "box" of the tectonics sized 500 km x 100 km basically JUMPED 10 meters in a very short time!

I’m glad you found your friend... phew...

Sheesh... that's amazing.

And thanks buddy.

 

[Astronuc]

I don’t know if this is a "rumor", but I heard on BBC that they lost normal power to cool the hot (but shoot down) core, and then tried to start the diesel reserve and that failed too, and now they are running the cooling system on batteries(?)... which will run out sooner or later...?

Here are the official statements from TEPCO. Any other statement from the media should be considered unsubstantiated.

Press Release (Mar 11,2011)
Occurrence of a Specific Incident Stipulated in Article 15, Clause 1 of the Act on Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency Preparedness(Fukushima Daiichi)

Today at approximately 2:46PM, turbines and reactors of Tokyo Electric
Power Company's Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station Unit 1 (Boiling
Water Reactor, rated output 460 Megawatts) and Units 2 and 3 (Boiling
Water Reactor, Rated Output 784 Megawatts) that had been operating at
rated power automatically shutdown due to the Miyagiken-oki Earthquake.

For the above 3 units, off-site power was lost due to malfunction of one
out of two off-site power systems, leading to automatic startup of
emergency diesel generators.

Subsequently, at 3:41PM, emergency diesel generators shutdown due to
malfunction resulting in the complete loss of alternating current for all
three units.

. . . .

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031103-e.html

followed by Press Release (Mar 11,2011)
Occurrence of a Specific Incident Stipulated in Article 10, Clause 1 of the Act on Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency Preparedness(Fukushima Daini)

Today at 2:46PM, turbines and reactors of Tokyo Electric Power Company's
Fukushima Daini Nuclear Power Station Units 1 to 4 (Boiling Water Reactor,
rated output 1,100 Megawatts) that had been operating at rated power
automatically shutdown due to the Miyagiken-oki Earthquake.

Currently, reactor water level for Units 1 to 4 is maintained by injecting
water into the reactors by the Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System.
The reactors are maintained at a subcritical condition.

For Unit 1, the emergency core cooling system automatically started up
due to increase in the reactor containment pressure assumed to be caused
by leakage of reactor coolant in the reactor containment.

Hence, at 5:35PM, it was decided that a specific incident stipulated in
Article 10, Clause 1 of the Act on Special Measures Concerning Nuclear
Emergency Preparedness *1 has occurred.

At 5:50PM, pursuant to the Act, relevant governmental institutions were
notified of the incident.

Future Actions: TEPCO is taking measures to reduce the pressure of the reactor containment.

Impact to safety and external environment:
Water level to cool the irradiated nuclear fuel in the reactor core is
maintained at this moment.
Indication of the monitoring posts installed in the periphery of the power
station is no different from usual and thus no radiation impact to the
external environment is confirmed at this moment.
We will continue to monitor in detail the possibility of discharge of
radioactive material from exhaust stacks and coolant water discharge canal.

. . . .

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031104-e.html

Loss of off-site power would be expected for such an event. Failure of EDGs or ECCS is not expected.

Additional information - http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html

More on the tsunami -
Miyaki prefecture coast was hit especially hard.

Other videos
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenvoy/20110311/ts_yblog_theenvoy/watch-raw-footage-of-the-japan-earthquake-and-tsunami



What gets me is the people that keep driving toward the flood waters. Clearly some are not paying attention to the unfolding disaster.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Here are the official statements from TEPCO. Any other statement from the media should be considered unsubstantiated.

Thanks Astronuc!

I guessed BBC was "out on thin ice"...

 

[nismaratwork]

It's hard to avoid a measure of hysteria in the media when splitting atoms comes into play... unforunately. We're lucky to have a knowledgeable voice of reason and patience.

Thanks Astronuc.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Sheesh... that's amazing.

Yes... and sometimes I wonder if 100% knowledge is really 'healthy' for the nerves...

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_big.php"

[PLAIN]http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/world_moll/world_moll.gif

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/usc0001xgp.php"

But then again (being 'selfish'), I live in a 'freezer' that seldom 'moves'...

And thanks buddy.

welcome


P.S. Being a complete ignorant amateur – isn’t there very many large quakes "Near the east coast of Honshu, Japan" BEFORE the "BIG ONE"...?

 

[hypatia]

News of a dam breaking, up to 1800 homes washed away. Very tragic indeed.

 

[Lancelot59]

Waves have already passed Hawaii, and they will hit coasts of Alaska, British Columbia, Washington, Oregon, California, and points south. Some of the energy will dissipate across the ocean.

I live in one of those places (BC)! Apparently all the beaches here are deserted.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

wow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ij-EW7EBuI"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ij-EW7EBuI

 

[nismaratwork]

Well... never say that things can't get worse.

An estimated 6.6-magnitude earthquake has struck Nagano and Niigata prefectures in Japan, Kyodo news service reports.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.quake/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
NEW: The U.S. is sending two disaster response teams to Japan
The quake is Japan's strongest in recorded history, Geologic Survey records show
The tsunami reaches as far as 6.2 miles inland
Hundreds of people are reported dead, with hundreds more missing

This is a mess.

 

[Astronuc]

Two more notable earthquakes.
Mag, UTC date time Lat, Long, depth (km) location
6.1 2011/03/11 19:02:58 39.372 142.900 24.8 NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN (same system at the mag 8.9)
6.2 2011/03/11 18:59:15 37.037 138.355 1.0 NEAR THE WEST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN (different system on the west side of the island, NW of Tokyo.) This would be toward the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa NPPs near Nagaoka.