A challenging statistical thermodynamics problem.

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a statistical thermodynamics problem involving the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution and the composition of gases in the atmosphere at different altitudes, specifically comparing sea level to the top of Mount Everest.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore how to apply the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution to determine gas ratios at high altitudes, questioning how energy and pressure changes affect gas composition. There are attempts to relate the given sea-level data to the distribution formula, and participants express uncertainty about the calculations and concepts involved.

Discussion Status

Some participants have begun to outline their understanding of the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution and its application to the problem. There is a recognition of the need to clarify the meaning of variables in the formula and how they relate to the problem's context. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being explored, and guidance has been offered regarding the application of the distribution.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the statistical thermodynamics topic was not covered in depth during their course, which may contribute to the challenges faced in addressing the problem. There is also a mention of potential round-off errors in the provided gas composition percentages.

Remy34
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Homework Statement



Consider the case of a gas in the atmosphere. Assume that the temperature is a constant. Based
on the Maxwell Boltzmann distribution, at sea level the atmosphere contains 78.1% N2, 21%
O2, 0.9% Argon, and 0.036 CO2. What are the ratios at the the top of Everest? (Molecular mass
of N2 = 28, Molecular mass of O2 = 32, Atomic mass of Argon = 40, Atomic mass of CO2 = 44.
Height of Everest = 8,848 m)Please walk me through this

Homework Equations



Maxwell Boltzmann statistics.

The Attempt at a Solution



To tell you the truth, I don't even know where to begin. I posted this on a different thread, but it wasn't properly addressed (it was ignored for the most part). I was just wondering if you guys can guide me through this problem. It would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Remy34 said:

Homework Equations



Maxwell Boltzmann statistics.

The Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution gives an expression for the ratio of the number of particles in a given microstate, ##N_i##, in terms of the total number of particles ##N##, the energy of the microstate ##E_i##, and the temperature. The sea-level values that you're given are equivalent to the values of ##N_i/N## for each component gas. Can you try to relate these to the Maxwell-Boltzmann formula? What is the appropriate expression for the energy? What changes when we consider a different altitude?
 
fzero said:
The Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution gives an expression for the ratio of the number of particles in a given microstate, ##N_i##, in terms of the total number of particles ##N##, the energy of the microstate ##E_i##, and the temperature. The sea-level values that you're given are equivalent to the values of ##N_i/N## for each component gas. Can you try to relate these to the Maxwell-Boltzmann formula? What is the appropriate expression for the energy? What changes when we consider a different altitude?

The trimester is over, and we didn't cover the statistical part of thermo in great detail (as a mater of fact we only began a week or so ago). This is supposed to be a challenge question. Any I thought that maybe as the pressure decreases so would the amount found at that height. But how can you relate it? Do you add up all the masses N and use it to divide Ni (individual masses)? As for relating the energy I am clueless.
 
Remy34 said:
The trimester is over, and we didn't cover the statistical part of thermo in great detail (as a mater of fact we only began a week or so ago). This is supposed to be a challenge question. Any I thought that maybe as the pressure decreases so would the amount found at that height. But how can you relate it? Do you add up all the masses N and use it to divide Ni (individual masses)? As for relating the energy I am clueless.

You really need to write down a Maxwell-Boltzmann formula at some point to solve this. Then ask what each quantity in the formula means and how you can relate it to the information in this problem.

##N## and ##N_i## are numbers of particles (in a unit volume), not masses.

If I have an object with mass ##m## at an altitude ##y##, what is its energy?
 
fzero said:
You really need to write down a Maxwell-Boltzmann formula at some point to solve this. Then ask what each quantity in the formula means and how you can relate it to the information in this problem.

##N## and ##N_i## are numbers of particles (in a unit volume), not masses.

If I have an object with mass ##m## at an altitude ##y##, what is its energy?

I think I see what you mean. You find the number of atoms (for example .036/44 times avagadros number), and then add them all up. That would be the N in the Boltzmann-Maxwell equation. And the equation is as follows;

N/Z(e^-εj/kt)

I have to do that for each one, am I correct? First calculate N with the appropriate ε (lets say for CO2), and then the Nj (for CO2).

The energy would be m*y*g.

Am I on the right track?
 
And another question. Why do the percentages add up to more than 100%?
 
Remy34 said:
I think I see what you mean. You find the number of atoms (for example .036/44 times avagadros number), and then add them all up. That would be the N in the Boltzmann-Maxwell equation. And the equation is as follows;

N/Z(e^-εj/kt)

I have to do that for each one, am I correct? First calculate N with the appropriate ε (lets say for CO2), and then the Nj (for CO2).

The energy would be m*y*g.

Am I on the right track?

Yes, you are on the right track, but you don't need Avagadro's number. The percentages are ##N_i/N##. You want to fix the coefficient of the exponential by using the values at sea level, then the percentages at altitude can be computed by using the energy difference in the exponential.

Remy34 said:
And another question. Why do the percentages add up to more than 100%?

It's a round-off error. Not all of the quoted values are given to the same decimal place.
 

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