A few questions on electricity and magnetism and EM fields

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around fundamental concepts in electricity and magnetism, specifically addressing the nature of electric and magnetic fields, the definition of the ampere, and the interaction of infrared light with materials. Participants seek clarification on these topics, exploring both theoretical and practical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the difference between electric and magnetic fields generated by charged particles and the electromagnetic field of photons, noting that photons are not charged.
  • One participant suggests that a powerful laser can remove electrons from stable atoms due to the superimposed electric fields of photons.
  • Another participant argues that Ampere did not define the ampere himself and discusses the practicality of measuring the force between current-carrying wires as a basis for the definition.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of infrared light as a heat vector, with one participant noting that most blackbody radiation is in the infrared range, while another emphasizes that all wavelengths contribute to heat, albeit predominantly in the infrared.
  • One participant clarifies that photons do not create electromagnetic fields but are the electromagnetic field itself, while charged particles create these fields and emit photons.
  • Concerns are raised about the effects of visible light on charged particles, with some arguing that visible light does affect them, while others question the extent of this effect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of photons, the definition of the ampere, and the interaction of light with materials. There is no consensus on several points, particularly regarding the effects of visible light on charged particles and the definition of electromagnetic fields.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific definitions and assumptions about electromagnetic fields and the behavior of light, which may not be universally accepted or understood in the same way by all participants.

The Cat
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Hello:

Many many years ago I walked away from community college with an associates degree in physics, and despite my fondness for the subject, I had to put it aside for other things.

I recently happened upon something that lead me to realize how much I had forgotten, and so I've decided to brush off the old calculator and textbooks and delve back into the subject.

Unfortunately I don't think I'm as bright as I used to be and I was wondering if someone could refresh my memory on a few basic things.

1. What is the difference between an electric and magnetic field generated by a charged particle such as an electron or proton, and the electromagnetic field of photons? Why doesn't the electromagnetic field of visible light affect free electrons, protons and other charged particles? I think I recall something about it being too weak but I'm not sure.

2. Why did Ampere define the amp the way he did? Did he intend the force between the two wires to be 2X10^(-7) Newtons per meter length for some reason or did he define it based on the opinion that the wires should be 1 meter apart to keep with the developing SI at the time?

3. And this one is on behalf of my brother who made me realize I had never thought about this before...why is light at infrared wavelengths such a good vector of heat across such a broad spectrum of materials? For example, microwaves heat water by causing the molecules to oscillate, but there are many materials you could stick in a microwave that are invisible to the microwaves, and while the microwaves are leaving the source as energy, they aren't leaving it as heat energy, as far as I understand, but infrared photons are?
 
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The Cat said:
Hello:

Many many years ago I walked away from community college with an associates degree in physics, and despite my fondness for the subject, I had to put it aside for other things.

I recently happened upon something that lead me to realize how much I had forgotten, and so I've decided to brush off the old calculator and textbooks and delve back into the subject.

Unfortunately I don't think I'm as bright as I used to be and I was wondering if someone could refresh my memory on a few basic things.

1. What is the difference between an electric and magnetic field generated by a charged particle such as an electron or proton, and the electromagnetic field of photons? Why doesn't the electromagnetic field of visible light affect free electrons, protons and other charged particles? I think I recall something about it being too weak but I'm not sure.

2. Why did Ampere define the amp the way he did? Did he intend the force between the two wires to be 2X10^(-7) Newtons per meter length for some reason or did he define it based on the opinion that the wires should be 1 meter apart to keep with the developing SI at the time?

3. And this one is on behalf of my brother who made me realize I had never thought about this before...why is light at infrared wavelengths such a good vector of heat across such a broad spectrum of materials? For example, microwaves heat water by causing the molecules to oscillate, but there are many materials you could stick in a microwave that are invisible to the microwaves, and while the microwaves are leaving the source as energy, they aren't leaving it as heat energy, as far as I understand, but infrared photons are?

Regarding question 1: A photon is not charged.
 
pallidin said:
Regarding question 1: A photon is not charged.

A powerful enough laser will rip one or more electrons from even stable atoms - the electric fields of the photons superimpose to create E fields no electron can ignore...
 
The Cat said:
2. Why did Ampere define the amp the way he did?

I don't think Ampere himself defined the ampere. It's just named after him. SI units are practical units which are intended to be precisely reproducible in a laboratory. It's relatively easy to measure the force between two current-carrying wires precisely, and gives better precision than defining the coulomb some other way and then defining 1 A = 1 C/s.
 
RocketSci5KN said:
A powerful enough laser will rip one or more electrons from even stable atoms - the electric fields of the photons superimpose to create E fields no electron can ignore...

OK, but can we clarify that a photon has no charge?
 
In answer to 3: The temperature of objects on Earth is such that most blackbody radiation is in the infrared range. Therefore in most textbooks, only infrared is mentioned when talking about heat. But actually all wavelengths are given off as heat (its just that most of it is infrared).
 
1. You are confused. Photons don't create electromagnetic fields. Photons are the electromagnetic field. Charged particles create electromagnetic fields, which is the same as saying charged particles emit photons. Photons have no mass and mediate the electromagnetic force, whereas electrons and protons have mass and experience forces.

Visible light does effect charged particles. That's why mirrors reflect, lenses focus, and everything has color. Perhaps you mean: Why doesn't visible light permanently damage objects? Visible light has less energy per photon than ultraviolet, x-rays. But visible light can still do plenty of damage if you have enough of it.
 
pallidin said:
OK, but can we clarify that a photon has no charge?

Photons have no charge. They are oscillating E and B fields, 90 degrees to each other, with the vector direction for each perpendicular to the direction of the photons travel. Or so I recall from a laser class in college.
 

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