AC Frequency UK: Why Does Filament Lamp Flash 25Hz?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the observation of a filament lamp flashing at 25 Hz when connected to the UK mains supply, which operates at 50 Hz AC frequency. Participants explore the reasons behind this phenomenon, including camera frame rates and aliasing effects, as well as the implications for lighting in different contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the filament bulb flashes 25 times per second, which is half of the 50 Hz AC frequency, and expresses confusion about why it does not flash 100 times per second as expected.
  • Another participant questions whether the lamp has a dimmer and inquires about the camera's frame rate.
  • A participant confirms the lamp does not have a dimmer and states that the camera records at 120 fps, suggesting that the visibility of the lamp dimming and brightening indicates the frame rate is sufficient.
  • One response proposes that the observed flashing might be due to a beat frequency between the camera's frame rate and the expected energy emission frequency.
  • A participant explains Nyquist's Sampling theorem, indicating that to accurately capture 100 Hz variations, a sampling rate significantly higher than 200 Hz is needed, and describes the observed effect as aliasing.
  • Another participant speculates that the camera's design may be optimized for 120 fps to avoid flicker in regions with 60 Hz power, suggesting it might be switchable to 100 fps for use in 50 Hz regions.
  • A participant shares a related issue with a CMOS astro camera experiencing flicker from indoor LED lighting, expressing a preference for oil lamps as a solution.
  • Another participant humorously agrees with the idea of using oil lamps, commenting on their pleasantness and mental health benefits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying viewpoints regarding the causes of the observed flashing and the implications of camera frame rates. There is no consensus on a single explanation, and multiple competing ideas are presented throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention limitations related to camera frame rates and the effects of aliasing, but do not resolve these issues or reach a definitive conclusion about the flashing phenomenon.

James2020
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When I record slow motion video of my filament bulb lamp connected to mains, I can be completely sure that it flashes 25 times per second. This is half of the 50 hertz AC frequency. I would expect it to flash 100 times per second as the current reaches a node twice per cycle in it’s AC wave. Why is this not the case.
 
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Welcome to PF.
Does the filament lamp have a dimmer?
What is the frame rate of your camera?
 
No the lamp doesn’t have a dimmer.
The frame rate of the camera is 120fps whilst recording in slow motion. I can observe the lamp visibility dimming & brightening so it certainly seems that the frame rate is high enough.
Thank you.
 
You are probably observing the beat between the 120 FPS and the 100 Hz energy emission you expected. Based on those numbers, the difference frequency is 20 Hz.
 
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James2020 said:
The frame rate of the camera is 120fps whilst recording in slow motion.
The camera is recording 'samples' (frames) of the scene. Nyquist's Sampling theorem says that, to get an accurate version of a changing scene, you need to sample at twice the rate that the scene is changing. If you are looking to record 100Hz variations correctly then you would need (significantly more than) 200Hz sampling rate. What you are seeing is referred to as an Alias. @Baluncore correctly describes it as a "beat". It's just like the wagon wheels going backwards on old films.

To avoid this problem, use DC lighting!

It's easier to describe the same effect in audio. Digital sound ADCs always use a low pass filter at half the sampling frequency to prevent aliases of high input frequencies turning up as low frequency aliases. Your digital camera has a spatial filter (fuzzy layer over the sensor) to avoid jazzy alias patterns. And we all (?) remember the problem of fine patterns on clothing producing distracting aliases when displayed on analogue colour TV. (Yes- sampling problems come in on analogue systems too)
 
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My guess is that the camera was designed to operate at 120 fps so as to have a zero flicker rate when operated in countries like the USA that have 60 Hz power.
It is possible that it can be switched to 100 fps for use in countries where 50 Hz power is used.
 
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I am having the same problem with my CMOS astro camera when I try to use it indoors. The sharp on/off of LEDs in the home makes it hopeless for decent indoor shooting. The flicker is terrible and I can't use more than about 30fps. I must buy some oil lamps.

High speed cameras present a lot of problems with data capture. USB3 is needed and that (another story) is not without its problems.

@James2020 what is your method of recording at the fast frame rate?
 
sophiecentaur said:
I must buy some oil lamps.
Aha, a renaissance man.

Oil lamp lighting is very pleasant, and IMO good for mental health. Not good for reading books, but fine for reading backlit screens.
 

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