Advice about dating and having kids

[cragar]

How rare is it for 2 people to get along very well and make each other laugh. What if you were in a relationship with someone and they wanted kids but you didn't want to have kids. How should one bring it up and talk about it. Should it only be talked about when the relationship gets very serious? I get along with person very well.

 

[ecoo]

If you know there will be problems in the future (e.g. children) then it is probably better to have a serious conversation the earlier the better (especially if you are serious about continuing and progressing the relationship).

 

[cragar]

ok so serious stuff should be brought up early in the relationship. Let's say hypothetically 2 people were in love, is that something that is very rare and shouldn't be taken for granted.

 

[Dr.D]

Don't have any children before you marry. If you have children before marriage and later split, these kids are severely penalized, both socially and economically.

 

[cragar]

ok thanks for the advice. I appreciate it

 

[mesa]

How rare is it for 2 people to get along very well and make each other laugh. What if you were in a relationship with someone and they wanted kids but you didn't want to have kids. How should one bring it up and talk about it. Should it only be talked about when the relationship gets very serious? I get along with person very well.

I say seriously consider having children with her (when the time is right).
Kids are awesome and will change your life in ways you could never imagine! :)

 

[elusiveshame]

Don't have any children before you marry. If you have children before marriage and later split, these kids are severely penalized, both socially and economically.

How do you figure? What if the parents are married then divorce? I grew up in a "broken" home (as well as very poor), and never once were penalized socially or economically. It's not always great to have poor parenting around, and would do more damage than having the parents no longer together. This isn't 1914 anymore, I fail to see the stigma you're applying in the last 32 years.

To the OP, this is something that should be discussed the moment the relationship becomes exclusive with the intent to be a serious relationship. My gf and I just had this discussion over the summer, and even though we're opposite in wants/desires in that aspect, we've also found a way around it (for the time being, anyway) and have set up some agreements that would determine if we have kids in the future. If we were to breakup over this issue, it's best to do it sooner than later, at least in my opinion.

 

[WWGD]

ok so serious stuff should be brought up early in the relationship.

If you cannot have an open discussion about things that matter to you (and, of course, same goes for your couple), it is not a good relationship. It is tricky to do it, but worth it in the long and in the not-so-long run.

 

[Mark44]

Emphasis added

I grew up in a "broken" home (as well as very poor), and never once were penalized socially or economically.

The bit about "very poor" is the economics part that Dr.D was talking about.

There is lots of statistical evidence that kids who grow up in one-parent households are generally less well-off financially than those in intact families, and are prone to all sorts of societal ills, including being convicted of crimes at a higher rate, higher incidences of drug use, and other social problems.

 

[elusiveshame]

Emphasis addedThe bit about "very poor" is the economics part that Dr.D was talking about.

There is lots of statistical evidence that kids who grow up in one-parent households are generally less well-off financially than those in intact families, and are prone to all sorts of societal ills, including being convicted of crimes at a higher rate, higher incidences of drug use, and other social problems.

My apologies, I thought he meant through life, not just at a young age.

I disagree with the statistics as I don't believe it's that simple. Money definitely opens up more opportunities (better schooling, different way of living, etc), but drugs and crime is an environmental thing. If a child is raised with less than adequate guidance, there's no amount of money (or lack of money) that will prevent someone from doing drugs or being socially awkward, or even being a criminal.

From the criminals I've known growing up (and even today), as well as drug users, seems mainly due to their upbringing.

Just my $0.02 on it :)

(I do admit that my knowledge on statistical research isn't the greatest, so if it really is causing ignorance on my end, please fill me in on it)

 

[WWGD]

My apologies, I thought he meant through life, not just at a young age.

I disagree with the statistics as I don't believe it's that simple. Money definitely opens up more opportunities (better schooling, different way of living, etc), but drugs and crime is an environmental thing. If a child is raised with less than adequate guidance, there's no amount of money (or lack of money) that will prevent someone from doing drugs or being socially awkward, or even being a criminal.

From the criminals I've known growing up (and even today), as well as drug users, seems mainly due to their upbringing.

Just my $0.02 on it :)

(I do admit that my knowledge on statistical research isn't the greatest, so if it really is causing ignorance on my end, please fill me in on it)

Hey, don't be so hard on yourself, this is one of these questions/issues of the ages: nature vs nurture. I would say neither extreme holds, and it seems reasonable to believe that a combination of both is necessary.

 

[elusiveshame]

I would say neither extreme holds, and it seems reasonable to believe that a combination of both is necessary.

I can agree with that :) and there are probably more variables that should be considered as well, though they probably wouldn't/couldn't be universally applied (such as witnessing a traumatic event).

Also, I didn't mean to sound hard on myself, but I would rather admit my weaknesses upfront rather than seem like I'm trying to pass my judgments/opinions off as fact :)

 

[WWGD]

I can agree with that :) and there are probably more variables that should be considered as well, though they probably wouldn't/couldn't be universally applied (such as witnessing a traumatic event).

Also, I didn't mean to sound hard on myself, but I would rather admit my weaknesses upfront rather than seem like I'm trying to pass my judgments/opinions off as fact :)

You know, an interesting thing is that, while a lot of these phenomena, like determining the factors that influence the formation of one's character, are infinite-dimensional, it is sometimes possible to isolate the factors that have the most weight, and use this fact to make accurate predictions . I think one of them is called Bruce Bueno de Tostada, who works at NYU, who has been able to make surprisingly-reliable predictions of events that were thought to be beyond the scope of prediction. One of the techniques used is that of Factor Analysis/ Principal Component Analysis.

 

[Evo]

You know, an interesting thing is that, while a lot of these phenomena, like determining the factors that influence the formation of one's character, are infinite-dimensional, it is sometimes possible to isolate the factors that have the most weight, and use this fact to make accurate predictions . I think one of them is called Bruce Bueno de Tostada, who works at NYU, who has been able to make surprisingly-reliable predictions of events that were thought to be beyond the scope of prediction. One of the techniques used is that of Factor Analysis/ Principal Component Analysis.

Do you mean Bruce Bueno de Mesquita, the political scientist?

 

[WWGD]

Do you mean Bruce Bueno de Mesquita, the political scientist?

A yes, sorry, I guess I was kind of hungry. I will continue posting after I am done eating :) .

 

[Evo]

A yes, sorry, I guess I was kind of hungry. I will continue posting after I am done eating :) .

LOL, (why does the "hilarious" smiley look like a backwards pink pacman?

 

[Choppy]

How rare is it for 2 people to get along very well and make each other laugh. What if you were in a relationship with someone and they wanted kids but you didn't want to have kids. How should one bring it up and talk about it. Should it only be talked about when the relationship gets very serious? I get along with person very well.

Simply getting along with and having a good time with an other person is one thing. This can be common for some people. Less so for others. But crossing into a deeper relationship where you feel an intimate connection, constructively support that person in the pursuit of their goals and dream and they return that support to you, and where you strongly have a desire to build life together with that other person - I'd say that's fairly rare.

As you progress in your relationship, of course questions of potentially building a life together will come up if both of you are serious about that as a an option. This includes the decision to have children.

If you feel the relationship is getting to that point its important to talk about these things and not just express your own desires, by you need to try to understand the other person's point of view. Things aren't always carved out in stone. People can change their minds over time. That doesn't mean that you can feel free to try to change the other peron's mind though. It just means that what seems like an impass now may not be one a few years down the road.

The decision of whether or not to have children can be a deal breaker. And ultimately you may have to accept that and both of you may have to move forward with your lives seperately. If you do, it's also important to realize that perhaps you weren't at compatible with each other as it may have seemed at first.

 

[cragar]

What if there are also strong cultural differences between our families. To the point that if we dated seriously her dad would stop talking to her and some other of her family members. my family has no problems with it. what do you guys think. would it not be wise to have a kid with this person.

 

[ecoo]

Depends who's "fault" the dislike stems from. Did you do something bad that the parents know about? If not, and it is just pure dislike with no reason, then I don't see why someone like that would and should affect the situation. Unfortunately it does, so just make sure who you let affect your relationship. Will the person who affects it be an unreasonable man? It's up to you to try to see where the other person (parents) are coming from and decide from there.

 

[Choppy]

What if there are also strong cultural differences between our families. To the point that if we dated seriously her dad would stop talking to her and some other of her family members. my family has no problems with it. what do you guys think. would it not be wise to have a kid with this person.

I'm not sure that's a problem of cultural difference specifically. That sounds more like a problem that lies with the personalities of specific family members. But either way, it can certainly be a challenge to overcome with the relationship.

Speaking only from my own experiences, if in the long-term you are a good for your partner, her family will come to accept you. "Good" can mean a lot of things of course. But if her family sees that she is happy with you and that you are a positive influence on her life, then they will eventually come to accept you, even if you come from outside their culture and are perhaps not an ideal match for their daughter.

In my experience, people who come from a strong sub-culture can have difficulty breaking out of that sub-culture. Immigrant families, for example can often form social networks where the common bond lies in the culture/nation/religion that they are originally from. Within these networks they can speak a language where they can express themselves completely, they are familiar with social customs and conventions, and they can share a common pride in their roots. Conversely, outside of these networks many people, particularly older generations, will have experienced racism (or other negative 'isms') that make it difficult to trust outsiders. But their next generation will have a much easier time in the new culture because they grow up in it. So naturally there is some conflict when the new generation adopts something from the new culture (i.e. a mate). Those same issues of trust and uncertainty will arise. Over time, with patience, generally, these barriers can be broken down.

I'd say that's a general rule of course. There are some very crazy people out there though. You have to gauge these situations at they come.

Only you can really decide if this relationship is worth the hassle of "in-laws" who are not going to be supportive of your relationship. And unfortunately there's no litmus test to give you a solid answer right away. It might be important to keep in mind though, that every relationship will have it's challenges to overcome.

 

[cragar]

ok thanks for the advice, its a cultural and racial problem, her family would not approve because of my race.

 

[StatGuy2000]

ok thanks for the advice, its a cultural and racial problem, her family would not approve because of my race.

If you don't mind my asking, what is your ethnic background, and the ethnic background of the woman you are speaking about? I'm curious since you brought up about a cultural and racial problem -- does her family come from a background where say, arranged marriages are not uncommon (e.g. India)?