Amazing Rings: Intersecting Stars Create Spectacular Gas Rings

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of concentric gas rings created by the interaction of two stars with nearly intersecting orbits. Participants explore the implications of this observation, its expected nature, and the potential for diffraction effects in the imaging of such phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the concentric rings of gas are a result of two stars with orbits that almost intersect.
  • Others argue that the observed features may resemble diffraction patterns rather than actual gas rings.
  • A participant references the expected nature of WR140's features based on prior studies, suggesting that the observations were anticipated rather than random.
  • There are claims that the radial spikes observed in JWST imaging are artifacts rather than genuine features.
  • Some participants note that earlier studies did not capture the regularly spaced rings due to limitations in imaging technology at the time.
  • One participant shares various resources and papers related to WR stars, indicating a broader context for the discussion.
  • Another participant mentions that the complexity of patterns in WR112 is due to its motion not being perpendicular to the line of sight.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the observed rings are genuine gas structures or artifacts of diffraction. There is no consensus on the interpretation of the images or the nature of the observed phenomena.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in earlier observations and the need for advanced imaging techniques to understand the features of WR stars. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of the same data, underscoring the complexity of the topic.

Hornbein
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Two stars with orbits that almost intersect create concentric rings of gas.
 
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Are you sure? This looks a lot like diffraction to me.

Sometimes a red dwarf is just a sausage.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Are you sure? This looks a lot like diffraction to me.

Sometimes a red dwarf is just a sausage.
Anton is a serious and reliable source.
 
Those rings still look a lot like diffraction to me.
 
https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0202315 (https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1086/340005)

WR140 is interesting to study because of this feature, it is not like they just randomally observed that star with JWST and saw something crazy and new. This was expected to be seen https://webbtelescope.org/contents/media/videos/2020/57/1297-Video?news=true (shows a cute animation)

Even more info about WR140: https://www.roe.ac.uk/~pmw/Wr140int.htm

The radial spikes however, are an artefact on JWST imaging
 
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But that paper doesn't show the regulalrly spaced rings.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
But that paper doesn't show the regulalrly spaced rings.
The one from 2002? No because one did not have the equipment to take such images back then on WR140, but one understood its features. It is a well known phenomena, but rare (because WR stars are rare). When I took course "stellar physics" in 2007, the teacher had a seminar for grad students about WR stars which he invented us mere mortal undergrads to attend "just for fun". I think I was the only undergrad student who attendend.

Here is a paper about the WR104 star
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/230919834_The_Prototype_Colliding-Wind_Pinwheel_WR_104
1660456823114.png

diagram:
1660456905732.png

image(s) from the Keck Observatory
https://stories.scienceinpublic.com.au/stories-of-astronomy-2012/keck-telescope/
http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~gekko/pinwheel.html
"The technique will be used on NASA’s successor to the Hubble Space Telescope: the James Webb Space Telescope"
1660456959145.png


Here is WR112
https://webarchive.gemini.edu/media/pr_images/final-wide-shot.jpg (by Gemini observatory)
its pattern is more compliacted because its motion is not perpendicular to our line of sight
https://scitechdaily.com/evolved-bi...of-dusty-embers-from-a-massive-stellar-forge/

Note that this is IR wavelength, in order to get pictures we can see we have to perform imageprocessing. This is a guy who has made such pic for WR140 using JWST data
nyj5wzpydie91.png
zoomed in:
1660459956551.png

does not look like diffraction to me.
 
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