An argument against Godelian anti-computationalism

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the argument against Godelian anti-computationalism, specifically addressing Roger Penrose's claim that a human mathematician's understanding of the non-terminating function G(G) is inherently linked to their mathematical ability as defined by function F. The argument posits that if a mathematician is informed that F determines their ability, they can deduce the non-termination of G(G). This raises philosophical questions about the nature of mathematical ability and whether it can be computably defined, suggesting that the existence of F may imply the correctness of computationalism.

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  • Understanding of Godel's incompleteness theorems
  • Familiarity with computational theory and concepts of computability
  • Knowledge of philosophical implications of mathematics and computation
  • Basic grasp of functions and their properties in mathematical logic
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  • Explore the implications of Godel's incompleteness theorems on computationalism
  • Research the philosophical debates surrounding the nature of mathematical ability
  • Investigate the concept of computability in relation to mathematical functions
  • Examine Roger Penrose's views on consciousness and computation in mathematics
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Philosophers of mathematics, computer scientists, and anyone interested in the intersection of computation and mathematical theory will benefit from this discussion.

T S Bailey
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I came across this argument on thinkinghard.com: "
To make the contradiction obvious, let the human mathematician who understands that G(G) is non-terminating be the same human mathematician for whom F determines their mathematical ability. If the mathematician was a robot, telling them that G(G) is non-terminating would cause a genuine increase in their mathematical ability. But Roger Penrose claims that the mathematician already knows G(G) is non-terminating, because they understand the Godelian argument.

I will show that this is not the case. We must return to basic principles. The task assigned to the function F is the following -

  • Given program X and data Y, determine if X(Y) does not terminate.
The human mathematician is given X=G and Y=G, with G defined such that G(x)=F(x,x) where F is the function that describes the mathematician's mathematical ability. The mathematician does not know that F is the function that describes their mathematical ability, unless we tell them so. If they did recognise F, then their understanding of the Godelian argument would allow them to determine that G(G) derived from F is non-terminating.

If we tell the mathematician that F is the program determining their mathematical ability, then we are giving them extra information, and that is what enables them to state that G(G) is non-terminating, apparently going beyond the capability determined by F.

We can just as easily program a robot mathematician to accept claims made by trustworthy parties about things that the robot does not already know, for example that a function F is the function that determines that robot's mathematical ability. But the moment that the robot accepts that information, F goes out of date as a description of that robot's mathematical ability."
Doesn't this argument beg the question by assuming that a human's mathematical ability could be determined by F? Wouldn't F necessarily be computable, and if so, wouldn't postulating it's existence be the same as concluding that computationalism is correct?
 
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T S Bailey said:
Doesn't this argument beg the question by assuming that a human's mathematical ability could be determined by F? Wouldn't F necessarily be computable, and if so, wouldn't postulating it's existence be the same as concluding that computationalism is correct?
Hi T S:
My opinion about the question you ask is that it is philosophical rather than mathematical. Watch out for the overseers.

Regards,
Buzz
 

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