An interesting(or very stupid) doubt that came to mind

In summary, the equation in question is not an identity and therefore cannot be solved using a power series. The proposed method of solving it using a geometric series is invalid as the equation is only true for one value of x. An alternative method, using the Lambert W function, can be used to find the exact solution. Approximation methods, such as truncating the power series, may not be accurate enough and fixed point methods may be a better approach.
  • #1
assed
27
1
I was dealing with the derivation of Stefan's law from Planck's law. In this derivation one gets to the following equation

[itex]\frac{xe^{x}}{e^{x}-1}=5[/itex]

At this point most places I looked provide an aproximate numerical solution to this transcendental equation and carry on. But I wwas thinking about this. Suppose there is x that satisfies the equation. Then,

[itex]xe^{x}=5e^{x}-5[/itex]

[itex]e^{x}(5-x)=5[/itex]

[itex]e^{x}=\frac{5}{5-x}=\frac{1}{1-\frac{x}{5}}[/itex]

The numerical solution they provide is less than 5, so we can use the geometrical series sum.

[itex]e^{x}=\sum(\frac{x}{5})^{n}[/itex]

Now, if I write the exponential series, and using that two power series must have the same coefficients i arrive at my problem. I thought a bit about it and since I can neither figure it out nor know exactly how to look for it I decided to ask it here. Maybe it is a stupid doubt and I am forgeting something. Either way, I would apreciate some help. Thanks.
 
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  • #2
They would have the same coefficients if that equation was true for every value of x. But it's only true for one value of x, so the coefficients can go crazy. As a stupid example, if you solve sin(x) = 0 you wouldn't expect the coefficients on both sides to be the same
 
  • #3
Office_Shredder makes a good point about the difference between an equation that is true only for specific values (a conditional equation) and one that is true for all values of the variable (an identity).

When you solve a quadratic equation such as x2 - 4x = -3 you are solving for the two values of x that make the equation a true statement.

OTOH, when you do partial fraction decomposition to turn 1/(x2 - 4) into the sum of two rational expressions of the form A/(x - 2) + B/(x + 2), you are finding the values of the constants A and B so that the equation 1/(x2 - 4) = A/(x - 2) + B/(x + 2) is true for all values of x (excepting, of course, 2 and -2).

The equation you started with, ##\frac{xe^{x}}{e^{x}-1}=5##, is not identically true, so equating ex with a geometric series as you did is invalid.
 
  • #4
Hi !
the method proposed by assed is not stupid at all if we consider the problem on the practical viewpoint (i.e. approximate numerical method, but not exact analytical method)
But, as shown in attachment, it will require a very large limited expansion of the function to be accurate enough : That is the drawback.
 

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  • #5
First off I get x~4.965114231744276303698759131322893944056 so 4<x<5
The exact solution can be expressed using the Lambert W function
x = W(-5/e^5)+5
you can use http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=x+e^x/(e^x-1)=5

As far as the proposed method I would describe the problem differently
we desire to solve
f(x)=0
it is totally valid to write f as a power series and solve it for x
the question is how to do so as in general I do not think much is gained
As was mentioned above if you truncate the series the zeros move.
You would need to read an approximation book about methods that preserve zeroes
usual fixed point methods (like Newton's method and its variations) are probably a better approach
 
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  • #6
Of course, I agree with lurflurf's remark.
 
  • #7
Thanks for the replies. As I expected, there was something I was missing. The first two answers showed the (rather stupid) mistake I was making, forgeting the x in my ratiocination was a specific number and not a variable and therefore there was no power series at all. Maybe I was sleepy or something. :smile:
Anyway, thanks again for the answers.
 

1. What is the scientific method and how does it relate to interesting doubts?

The scientific method is a systematic approach used by scientists to study and understand the natural world. It involves making observations, formulating a hypothesis, conducting experiments, and analyzing data to reach a conclusion. Interesting doubts can be explored using the scientific method, as it allows for evidence-based reasoning and can help find answers to these doubts.

2. How can we differentiate between an interesting doubt and a very stupid doubt?

There is no clear distinction between the two, as what may seem interesting to one person may seem silly to another. However, a doubt can be considered interesting if it leads to meaningful discussions and inquiries, while a very stupid doubt may lack depth or relevance.

3. Can doubts be beneficial to the scientific community?

Yes, doubts can be beneficial to the scientific community as they often lead to new discoveries and advancements. Doubts can also help scientists think critically and challenge existing theories, leading to further research and a better understanding of the world around us.

4. How can we encourage the exploration of doubts in the scientific community?

One way to encourage the exploration of doubts in the scientific community is to create a supportive and open-minded environment where individuals feel comfortable sharing their doubts and ideas. Collaboration and communication among scientists can also lead to the exchange of doubts and the development of new research projects.

5. Are there any downsides to questioning and doubting in the scientific field?

While questioning and doubting can lead to progress and new discoveries, it can also slow down the scientific process and lead to conflicting opinions. It is important for scientists to use critical thinking and evidence-based reasoning when exploring doubts, as well as being open to new ideas and perspectives.

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