Angular Momentum Term Equals Zero?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a classical mechanics problem involving angular momentum, specifically addressing why a certain term in the angular momentum expression is set to zero. The context includes the dynamics of two masses connected by a string, one hanging through a hole in a table and the other resting on the table.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the term involving sin(2θ) is set to zero in the angular momentum expression, suggesting it may relate to the fixed nature of r or the effects of gravity on the hanging mass.
  • Another participant indicates there is an error in the first participant's derivation of the angular momentum equation but does not specify the error without further context.
  • A third participant provides an alternative method for deriving angular momentum in polar coordinates, implying that the original approach may be flawed.
  • There is a discussion about the manipulation of terms in the angular momentum expression, particularly regarding the simplification involving dr and the trigonometric identities used.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the original derivation or the reasons for setting the sin(2θ) term to zero. Multiple competing views and methods for deriving angular momentum are presented, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in the derivation process, including unresolved mathematical steps and the dependence on specific assumptions about the motion of the masses and the coordinate system used.

KleZMeR
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Hi All,

This is from a classical mechanics problem, and I already 'solved' the problem, but I'm interested in why a certain term is set to zero. I think I understand the concept but just want to clarify.

The problem is a table with a hole in it and two masses on a string, one mass is hanging through the hole with only a Z component, and the other is on the table with an X and Y component (Z plane).


When I take the cross product of R x mV, I get the angular momentum vector K which has only a 'vertical' component:
R x mV = [m*(r^2)*dθ + m*r*dr*sin(2θ)] K


But I am told that:
R x mV = m*(r^2)*dθ K


The sin(2θ) came from some trig identity work. So I am wondering is this because there is no effect on the K vector from a sin(2θ) factor which is only in the Z plane? Why is this term 0? Is dr = 0 ? I think r is fixed but the problem does say that gravity affects the hanging mass, so perhaps dr in the Z plane is not zero? Any help understanding this is appreciated.
 
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There is an error in your derivation of equation for angular momentum. Without seeing the derivation, I cannot say what this error is. A simple, if somewhat cumbersome/ way to obtain the angular momentum in polar coordinates is by writing ## x = r \cos \theta, \ y = r \sin \theta ##, then writing ## \dot x = ..., \ \dot y = ... ## and taking their cross product.
 
Here is my attempt, I uploaded it
 

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So you have ## mr [\dot r \cos \theta \sin \theta + ... - \dot r \sin \theta \cos \theta + ... ] ## yet you write ## = mr [ ... + 2\dot r \cos \theta \sin \theta] ##.
 
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