Another trig substitution question

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the integral ∫ √(1 + x^2)/x dx, which involves trigonometric substitution. Participants are examining the steps taken to arrive at a solution and comparing it with a provided answer from a textbook.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore trigonometric substitution and logarithmic properties. There are attempts to clarify the notation used in the answers, particularly regarding absolute value bars. Questions arise about the necessity of certain transformations and whether different forms of the answer are equivalent.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on rewriting logarithmic expressions and have pointed out that the answers may be equivalent up to a constant. There is acknowledgment of a correction regarding notation, and the conversation is ongoing with further questions about the transformations involved.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a potential misunderstanding regarding the notation used in the answers, specifically the use of absolute value bars. Participants are also navigating the implications of different forms of the logarithmic expression without reaching a definitive conclusion.

vande060
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Homework Statement



sorry wait a few moments for the details, i hit post on accident prematurely

∫ √(1 + x^2)/x dx

The Attempt at a Solution



∫ √(1 + x^2)/x dx

x = tanϑ , dx sec^2ϑ dϑ -π/2 < ϑ < π/2

√(1 + x^2) = secϑ

∫ (secϑ * sec^2ϑ dϑ )/ tanϑ dϑ

after using trig identities

∫cscϑ dϑ + ∫ tanϑsecϑ dϑ

= -Ln I cscϑ + cotϑ I + secϑ + C

= -LnI [√(1 + x^2) +1]/xI + √(1 + x^2) + C

but the back of the book tells me

= LnI [√(1 + x^2) - 1]/xI + √(1 + x^2) + C

am i missing something here
 
Last edited:
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I'm not quite sure if you mean
[tex]\ln\left( i \sqrt{1 + x^2} + 1} / x \right)[/tex]
or
[tex]\ln\left( i \sqrt{1 + x^2} + 1} \right) / x[/tex]
or
[tex]\ln(i) \cdot \left( \sqrt{1 + x^2} + 1} / x \right)[/tex]

But it might be possible that the answers are actually the same up to a constant.
You could try using the properties of logarithms to rewrite ln(i √(1 + x²) - 1) to ln(i √(1 + x²) - 1) + k
where k is a constant (which you can then absorb in C).
 
CompuChip said:
I'm not quite sure if you mean
[tex]\ln\left( i \sqrt{1 + x^2} + 1} / x \right)[/tex]
or
[tex]\ln\left( i \sqrt{1 + x^2} + 1} \right) / x[/tex]
or
[tex]\ln(i) \cdot \left( \sqrt{1 + x^2} + 1} / x \right)[/tex]

But it might be possible that the answers are actually the same up to a constant.
You could try using the properties of logarithms to rewrite ln(i √(1 + x²) - 1) to ln(i √(1 + x²) - 1) + k
where k is a constant (which you can then absorb in C).

I am very sorry, there is no i. I is supposed to be the absolute value bar, I forgot the second one.

here is my answer, rewritten.

= -LnI [√(1 + x^2) +1]/xI + √(1 + x^2) + C

I have edited my first post to include the I properly in both my answer and the book's answer
 
Last edited:
Ah, thanks for correcting that.
Just out of curiosity, don't you have a vertical bar (|) on your keyboard?

Anyway, how about something like
[tex]- \ln \left| \frac{\sqrt{1 + x^2} + 1}{x} \right|[/tex]
[tex]\cdots = \ln \left| \frac{x}{\sqrt{1 + x^2} + 1} \right|[/tex]
[tex]\cdots = \ln \left| \frac{x (\sqrt{1 + x^2} - 1)}{(\sqrt{1 + x^2} + 1)(\sqrt{1 + x^2} - 1)} \right|[/tex]
[tex]\cdots = \ln \left| \frac{\sqrt{1 + x^2} - 1}{x} \right|[/tex]

I intentionally skipped some steps and justifications (particularly about pulling operations inside the absolute value signs), I will leave those up to you.
 
CompuChip said:
Ah, thanks for correcting that.
Just out of curiosity, don't you have a vertical bar (|) on your keyboard?

Anyway, how about something like
[tex]- \ln \left| \frac{\sqrt{1 + x^2} + 1}{x} \right|[/tex]
[tex]\cdots = \ln \left| \frac{x}{\sqrt{1 + x^2} + 1} \right|[/tex]
[tex]\cdots = \ln \left| \frac{x (\sqrt{1 + x^2} - 1)}{(\sqrt{1 + x^2} + 1)(\sqrt{1 + x^2} - 1)} \right|[/tex]
[tex]\cdots = \ln \left| \frac{\sqrt{1 + x^2} - 1}{x} \right|[/tex]

I intentionally skipped some steps and justifications (particularly about pulling operations inside the absolute value signs), I will leave those up to you.

i don't see a vertical bar, sorry. I understand the transformation completely

i am sorry to bother with one more question, but why is the final transformation necessary? it does not seem any more simple.
 
Last edited:
vande060 said:
i don't see a vertical bar, sorry. I understand the transformation completely

i am sorry to bother with one more question, but why is the final transformation necessary? it does not seem any more simple.

No, of course not. What CompuChip is actually trying to show you is that, they are identically the same. Congratulations, you've come to the right result. :)
 

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