Find Out More About Zen Meditation: Can Anyone Recommend a Book?

[pattiecake]

I recently stumbled upon this quote:

When you have faith, you have the impression that you have the truth, you have insight, you know the path to follow, to take. And that is why you are a happy person. But is it a real path, or just the clinging to a set of beliefs? These are two different things. True faith comes from how the path you are taking can bring you life and love and happiness everyday.

When we believe something to be the absolute truth, we are closed. We are no longer open to the understanding and insight of other people, and this is because the object of our faith is just an idea, not a living thing. But if the object of your faith is your direct experience and your insight, then you can always be open. You can grow everyday in your practice, in sharing the fruit of your practice, and in making your faith, love, and happiness grow.
~ Thich Nhat Hanh


I'm really interested in learning more about Zen meditation. Does anyone know anything about it? Can anyone recommend a good book to start?

 

[<<<GUILLE>>>]

I don't knwo much about zen, but my grandmother is a follower.

I know that it is a branch of Budhism but which is more strict. It is a lot about your "center of energy" (nothing of scietific in here) which is supposed to be your navel and around it, and you are supposed to get compresed into a very small area having your legs really curved and your hands around your navel and try to meditate. Your are supposed to eat very very little. They don't talk too much. I have a zen proverb...

Only the master knows the sound of his shadow behind the wall.

It makes no sense at all.

 

[Dayle Record]

Zen is a way of looking at the world, without any barricades between you and your ability to see and experience your life. It might be stated that as we grow and learn and behave and believe as we are expected to in our societies, we slowly imprison our perceptions, so that we become humans doing things, rather than experiencing first hand states of being.

One of the tricks of Zen is to quiet internal dialogue, so that everything does not have to be judged, or pigeonholed, or elevated, or debased, the mind is free to come forward, to the edges of perception, freeing up a lot of internal bytes to fully experience the moment.

People who have been faced with life or death situations describe a suspension of time, and an incredible silence from which they make succinct survival moves, this is also a technique in martial arts. Zen is the practice of living in that state of clarity, so there is a peace and yet a nimbleness with which to approach everyday living. You are never going to see the book, Zen And The Art Of Road Rage. Zen masters will be each unique, and have a different sort of finesse, or lack of it. Find a place near you where people do Zen meditation, and if it is too militaristic, or overbearing, then find another, and try it. Just look for someone near where you live that has a lively meditation place, or who offers classes at a university near you.

 

[Big Evil]

I had a dream about talking to God and He told me of how everything descends from the spheres. To make a long story short I was informed by someone who studies philsophy that it sounds just like Taoism what I was told.

It doesn't mean I have all the answers, quite the oppisite, it encourages me to seek out more knowledge. And develop a more powerful mind. That is my geas. And God didn't pre-destine it for me, He just stimulated my brain enough to recindle the flame I lost long ago for the thirst of knowledge. (When I was a child I was a REAL bookworm..)

 

[DocToxyn]

I can't add much more than what others have spoken to already. Take a look at "The Three Pillars of Zen" as a good intro. Also look into the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tsu for interesting things the thingk about.

 

[Huckleberry]

I don't knwo much about zen, but my grandmother is a follower.

I know that it is a branch of Budhism but which is more strict. It is a lot about your "center of energy" (nothing of scietific in here) which is supposed to be your navel and around it, and you are supposed to get compresed into a very small area having your legs really curved and your hands around your navel and try to meditate. Your are supposed to eat very very little. They don't talk too much. I have a zen proverb...

Only the master knows the sound of his shadow behind the wall.

It makes no sense at all.

Of course it makes no literal sense. It isn't meant to. That doesn't mean it makes no sense metaphorically. With metaphor we can explain things that are impossible to explain in a literal sense. Most poetry is this way.

Only the master knows the sound of his shadow behind the wall.
I would interpret this to mean that when a person truly understands any situation then there is no barrier that can prevent their understanding. It could be interpreted in any number of ways, and this is where the essense of Zen enters. It isn't something you can teach. It isn't something you can learn. It is something that you just understand when you are ready.

I enjoyed reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainance. I'm sure you can find many books on the topic. The best advice I could give would be not to try too hard.

 

[imabug]

I'm really interested in learning more about Zen meditation. Does anyone know anything about it? Can anyone recommend a good book to start?

Try the library. You are pretty much guaranteed to find several shelves worth of books on Zen/Buddhism/Tao covering a wide range of levels. I'm sure there will be several good introductory books that will suit you. And you can take them out for free!

There are a couple of Zen introduction books by Alan Watts I have on my shelf. These are some of the books I have on my shelf that I've enjoyed reading

The Way of Zen
Spirit of Zen
The Tao of Pooh
The Tao of Inner Peace

 

[FredGarvin]

You may want to take a look at Shambhala Press. I cam across them reading a few of John Stevens' books. There is a lot to be read on this tiopic.

http://www.shambhala.com

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I just got done with Classics of Buddhism and Zen, Volume 1 : The Collected Translations of Thomas Cleary



Fantastic book. Very easy to read, I'm an average speed reader and it took me about a month.

 

[Les Sleeth]

I started my own meditation career with Zen years back. But to get anywhere I had to study the original texts, and especially the words of the Buddha himself. I did so because unlike most people who seem to write today, I am disappointed with the “modernization” that’s happened to Zen. Zen has become so watered down, people now use it as a prefix and attach it to anything from cooking and archery to sex. If you have the patience to read this somewhat wordy post, I’ll explain myself.

If you want to know what it was orignally, you’d have to study not just Zen, but the development of Buddhism. Buddhism didn’t start out as Buddhism (i.e., the religion). It started out with the enlightenment of Siddhartha Gautama, and his enlightenment came about after years of devoted meditation. As “the Buddha” he set up and invited people to join his sangha, which was a monastic community devoted to meditation.

The four noble truths taught by the Buddha, that (essentially) being dependent on anything outside oneself for happiness leads to suffering, was a way of inviting people to learn the techniques of strict dependence on inner skills to be happy and content . . . and that too was learned through meditation. The eighfold path? Well, again, it was guidelines for remaining unentangled in life so that one could focus on the main goal samadhi meditation (the 8th step of the eightfold path).

So the followers of the Buddha were meditators first and foremost, and every bit of philosophy/guidance the Buddha gave them had no purpose in and of itself, but was solely aimed at keeping followers inward-oriented. But Buddhist religion switches all that by giving top priority to the philosophy/guidance stuff the Buddha offered his devoted meditators.

Not so long after the death of the Buddha, missionary efforts had spread his teaching all over the East where, as typically happens when enlightenment is taken to superstitious populations with indigenous occult practices already in place, it began turning into religion. And as a result of altering the Buddha’s priority, in Buddhism one learned a way to behave, to believe, what to think . . . and if one has time, slip in some meditation.

Jump ahead to a thousand years after the Buddha’s death and there are unmistakable signs that Buddhist religion is dominant. It is recognized by prolific temple building, sutra copying and chanting, relic veneration, pilgrimages to and circumambulation of commemorative monuments (the stupas), worship of semi-divine beings, along with a plentiful collection of stories, philosophic works, new “scriptures,” and beliefs—none of which had been taught or recommended by the Buddha.

Now, it is often the case that while religion proliferates, a much, much smaller core of devotees remains true to the original teachings of the master. I call these devotees preservationists because they work to preserve enlightenment by practicing inwardness (particularly meditation) just as vigorously as the master taught it (there is a parallel case of preservationism in Christianity by the way).

Religion appeals to the masses, so the size and growth of religion usually completely overshadows the work of the preservationists (usually the average person knows nothing about them). In the case of the original teachings of the Buddha and the religion of Buddhism, I believe Zen came about from a preservationist who left India to look for new preservationists in China, traditionally believed to be Bodhidarma.

With a new start and a true enlightenment master, meditation blossomed beautifully in fertile souls where a fresh expression of the Buddha’s realization became known as Ch’an (Zen is the later Japanese pronuciation of the Chinese word chan-na -- abbreveated Ch’an -- which was their rendering of the sanskrit word dhyana, which means meditation). It is easy to see Bodhidarma was a genuine preservationist because he brought the experience alive in himself. He could therefore serve the essential role of teacher, emanating the enlightenment experience for aspirants.

That is exactly why enlightenment became a reality in Ch’an. We don’t know how the founding teacher really taught, but we do know the teaching format that descended from him was very close to the Buddha’s. It was an exceptionally simple system of initiation by the master, listening to and interacting with the master, and sitting in meditation. The so-called Four Statements of Ch’an (attributed to Bodhidarma) reflect this simplicity:
1. No dependence on words and letters.
2. A special transmission outside the Scriptures [meaning, passing the experience to an aspirant through initiation by a realized teacher].
3. Direct pointing to the heart of man.
4. Seeing into one's nature and the attainment of the Buddhahood.

Because samadhi meditation was central to Ch’an, it confirms the Buddha relied primarily on “right meditation” to teach inwardness. Even six hundred years after its origin as Ch’an, meditation was still the central practice, as is shown by Japanese Zen master Dogen’s words (who had traveled to China to study Zen), “In the study of the Way, the prime essential is sitting meditation. The attainment of the way by many people in China is due in each case to the power of sitting meditation. Even ignorant people with no talent, who do not understand a single letter, if they sit whole-heartedly in meditation, then by the accomplishment of meditative stability, they will surpass even brilliant people who have studied for a long time. Thus students . . . do not get involved with other things.”

So you might understand why today, as I said, I am unimpressed with what is called Zen. Plus everybody and their uncle is setting themselves up as teachers. I’ve meditated an hour or more daily for almost 32 years and would never offer myself as a teacher, but I know of people who have never even meditated, but just became “realized” by reading Zen stuff, and now offer themselves as a master.

I’d be careful who you let teach you. I think a good start is to understand the Buddha before, or at least while, you check out Zen. The problem is finding the words of the Buddha, rather than all the later religious interpreters. Fortunately, his first followers made a point of memorizing and recording his words, so we have quite a bit material preserved. I might suggest starting with a book like Thus Have I heard – The long discourses of the Buddha translated by Maurice Walshe (it might be out of print, but Amazon should have it cheap used). It has a great collection of the Buddha’s talks, give a history of some of the texts, and also discusses some of the Buddhist religion beliefs.

In terms of Zen, my all-time favorite master is Joshu. A great book (likely out of print too, but Amazon’s used book search is awesome) is Radical Zen – the sayings of Joshu by Yoel Hoffmann.

If I can be of any more help, PM me and I can make other suggestions for learning meditation.

 

[Vossistarts]

zen practice is sitting and counting breaths and watching your thoughts come and go without attaching to them without repulsing from them. the counting breaths keeps you focused on one thing. It is about being awake and present, free of internal dialoge and concepts. THat allows us to interact directly and honestly with world we experience. Thats about all you need to know about Zen.imo

 

[Johann]

I only have one question: why hasn't this thread been deleted? Isn't it about religion after all?

 

[Les Sleeth]

I only have one question: why hasn't this thread been deleted? Isn't it about religion after all?

Where exactly do you see religion in talking about meditation?

 

[selfAdjoint]

Where exactly do you see religion in talking about meditation?

In fact Les, your long post specifically separates the practice of Zen from the historical Buddhist religion, and asserts that Gautama's original teaching had nothing to do with that religion as it developed. That's about as far from a "religious" post as I can imagine.

 

[Dr.Yes]

I recently stumbled upon this quote:

When you have faith, you have the impression that you have the truth, you have insight, you know the path to follow, to take. And that is why you are a happy person. But is it a real path, or just the clinging to a set of beliefs? These are two different things. True faith comes from how the path you are taking can bring you life and love and happiness everyday.

When we believe something to be the absolute truth, we are closed. We are no longer open to the understanding and insight of other people, and this is because the object of our faith is just an idea, not a living thing. But if the object of your faith is your direct experience and your insight, then you can always be open. You can grow everyday in your practice, in sharing the fruit of your practice, and in making your faith, love, and happiness grow.
~ Thich Nhat Hanh


I'm really interested in learning more about Zen meditation. Does anyone know anything about it? Can anyone recommend a good book to start?

Zen is highly disciplined, or, in the least, that is my experience of the practice.

The Zen disciplines require that you find the universe in the leg of a chair or in the dew on the leaf.

That's why people talk about "the Zen of Motorcycle Maintanence" or the Zen of Eating or whathaveyou. There are Zen practitioners who have spent 20 years painting the image of the same mountain for 20 years. Through this disciplined approach to understanding a phenomenon, there is the belief that the practitioner will understand every mountain, every tree, every river, every rock and everything else, just by concentrating, fully and wholey on one aspect of their environment.

Paul Cezzan, the French artist who is credited with starting part of the Impressionist movement was a natural Zen type of guy. He painted Mount Victoria for around most of his life. He is also credited with starting the Cubist movement through this discipline3 he developed.

This kind of devotion to a single aspect of one's life and one's experience often results in a Quality of understanding that is rarely attained by the general populace. I suppose that's why the Zen monks and practitioners are few and far between. Its a hard road and Boot Camp is not just 6 months in the mud. Its 20 years of purile concentration.

Personally, I am of the belief that Jack of All Trades, Master of None can evolve into a form of what the Zenists have tended to attempt to attain.

Because great minds think alike... and, similarily, fools seldom differ ... I lean more towards the multidisciplined approach that includes less beliefs, rituals, balognia and more actual experiences. Because, that's all there is, really.

 

[Johann]

If you take the Buddhist metaphysics out of it, meditation is just a trick you play with your brain that often causes its practitioners to develop false beliefs about the nature of reality. Which is why I don't practice it and don't recommend to anyone.

This kind of devotion to a single aspect of one's life and one's experience often results in a Quality of understanding that is rarely attained by the general populace

A few milligrams of LSD often have exactly the same effect.

Because great minds think alike... and, similarily, fools seldom differ ...

Sheesh! If that is not preaching, I don't know what is! Can we talk about saints and sinners now? Believers and infidels?

 

[Dr.Yes]

If you take the Buddhist metaphysics out of it, meditation is just a trick you play with your brain that often causes its practitioners to develop false beliefs about the nature of reality. Which is why I don't practice it and don't recommend to anyone.

Look whos preaching now.

A few milligrams of LSD often have exactly the same effect.

Do tell.

Sheesh! If that is not preaching, I don't know what is! Can we talk about saints and sinners now? Believers and infidels?

None of those topics has much to do with Zen, but... go ahead.

 

[WeeDie]

If you want to know about Zen I warmly recommend Alan Watts: http://deoxy.org/watts.htm

If you take the Buddhist metaphysics out of it, meditation is just a trick you play with your brain that often causes its practitioners to develop false beliefs about the nature of reality. Which is why I don't practice it and don't recommend to anyone.

Please man, how could observation on what is (which basically is what meditation is all about) encourage development of false beliefs about reality?
I'm more inclined to believe that such an endeavour would pattern the nervous system to be more in concordance with what's actually "out there" and so make your brain better conditioned to find TRUE beliefs about the nature of reality.
Maybe you should try practising it before handing out expert advice on it. Seriously, someone like you would probably gain a lot from a crashcourse 10 days Vipassana retreat.

A few milligrams of LSD often have exactly the same effect.

Have you actually tried LSD?

LSD doesn't come close to the effects attained by a advanced meditator. Used right it can be a very practical tool though - not for the faint-hearted. Enjoy Timothy Leary and his info-psychology! More "serious" books are published nowadays but Leary will forever be the #1 rascal Guru ;)

I've personally enjoyed tremendous benefits from meditation. It certainly makes me smarter - more creative and intelligent. With perseverant practice it allows you to experience reality as it is without the encumberment of language, indoctrination and conflicts conditioned upon the nervous system.

 

[hypnagogue]

If you take the Buddhist metaphysics out of it, meditation is just a trick you play with your brain that often causes its practitioners to develop false beliefs about the nature of reality.

Could you expound on this a bit? What meditation-related beliefs do you feel are false, and how do you conclude that they are indeed false?

 

[Dr.Yes]

The Zen of Physics

If you want to know about Zen I warmly recommend Alan Watts: http://deoxy.org/watts.htm

Alan Watts also does an excellent write up on the similarities between Indian and other eastern philosophies and high-end physics. I don't know if he is the authority on the comparitive similarities here but, its almost as though much of particle physics and matter anti-matter, etc... has been studied and documented then, over time, most of the method and rational has been lost only to become philosophy and religion. What's left is enormas myths and stories that fit like an overhead transparency over the formuli and conjectures of modern day explorations into physics.

Have you actually tried LSD?

The one thing LSD replicates as a state is quantum reality. When you see 60,000 seagulls left behind along only one seagull's flightpath, a quantum form of perceiving reality becomes immediately apparent.

What would the Zen of Physics look like?

Is it some monkish dude hunkered down beside some cyclotron or using a linear accelerator to write equations? Would it entail this monkish dude or dudette studying the same equation over and over for decades until a blinding flash of inspiration showed them the ultimate unification theory?

Zen of Physics... can anyone tell me what this would look like?

 

[WeeDie]

Alan Watts also does an excellent write up on the similarities between Indian and other eastern philosophies and high-end physics. I don't know if he is the authority on the comparitive similarities here but, its almost as though much of particle physics and matter anti-matter, etc... has been studied and documented then, over time, most of the method and rational has been lost only to become philosophy and religion. What's left is enormas myths and stories that fit like an overhead transparency over the formuli and conjectures of modern day explorations into physics.

Fritjof Capra - The Tao of Physics is a classic, and the Amazon collection seems to flood with books trying to integrate physics with the esoteric teachings of mysticism, religion and the rational of western and eastern philosophy. I even think there are models around based on Bell's theorem that fits quite well with results within quantum physics and even the latest results in ESP statistics.

Zen of Physics... can anyone tell me what this would look like?

A Zen of Physics would be this very cool set of people that designs the most awesome starship, complete with the most beatiful and perfect mathematical models concievable, and then takes off to some distant galaxy before some other gang of conventional physicist figure out how it works and use the same technique to build a bomb and blows up the planet.

 

[Dr.Yes]

Fritjof Capra - The Tao of Physics is a classic, and the Amazon collection seems to flood with books trying to integrate physics with the esoteric teachings of mysticism, religion and the rational of western and eastern philosophy. I even think there are models around based on Bell's theorem that fits quite well with results within quantum physics and even the latest results in ESP statistics.


A Zen of Physics would be this very cool set of people that designs the most awesome starship, complete with the most beatiful and perfect mathematical models concievable, and then takes off to some distant galaxy before some other gang of conventional physicist figure out how it works and use the same technique to build a bomb and blows up the planet.

Yes. To me the Zen of Physics would be the discipline involved in being and administrating oneself as a physical being.

As that physical being, your body (including mind and all the crap it generates) experiences all the laws of physics and therefore it is possible that, since you are a physical being, you are learning and understanding all laws of physics. Through this method one would attain the Zen of physics.

Here is a list of Alan Watts' books, recordings and articles (some of them deal with Zen in particular)

* The Spirit of Zen (1936)
* The Legacy of Asia and Western Man (1937)
* The Meaning of Happiness (1940)
* The Theologica Mystica of St. Dionysius (1944) (translation)
* Behold the Spirit (1948)
* Easter - Its Story and Meaning (1950)
* The Supreme Identity (1950)
* The Wisdom of Insecurity (1951) (cool!)
* Myth and Ritual in Christianity (1953)
* The Way of Zen (1957)
* Nature, Man, and Woman (1958)
* "This Is It" and Other Essays on Zen and Spiritual Experience (1960)
* Psychotherapy East and West (1961)
* The Joyous Cosmology - Adventures in the Chemistry of Consciousness (1962)
* The Two Hands of God - The Myths of Polarity (1963)
* Beyond Theology - The Art of Godmanship (1964)
* The Book - On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are (1966)
* Nonsense (1967)
* Does It Matter? - Essays on Man's Relation to Materiality (1970)
* Erotic Spirituality - The Vision of Konarak (1971)
* The Art of Contemplation (1972)
* In My Own Way - An Autobiography 1915-1965 (1972)
* Cloud-hidden, Whereabouts Unknown - A Mountain Journal (1973)
* Tao: The Watercourse Way (unfinished at the time of his death in 1973 - published in 1975)
* The Early Writings of Alan Watts (1987)
* The Modern Mystic: A New Collection of Early Writings (1990)

In addition, a number of books have been published since his death that contain transcripts of recorded lectures and/or articles not included in the above.* They include:

* The Essence of Alan Watts (1974)
* Essential Alan Watts (1976)
* Uncarved Block, Unbleached Silk: The Mystery of Life (1978)
* Om: Creative Meditations (1979)
* Play to Live (1982)
* Way of Liberation: Essays and Lectures on the Transformation of the Self (1983)
* Out of the Trap (1985)
* Diamond Web (1986)
* Talking Zen (1994)
* Become Who You Are (1995)
* Buddhism: The Religion of No-Religion (1995)
* The Philosophies of Asia (1995)
* The Tao of Philosophy (1995)
* Myth and Religion (1996)
* Taoism: Way Beyond Seeking (1997)
* Zen and the Beat Way (1997)
* Culture of Counterculture (1998)

 

[Simetra7]

Any Zen out there

Zen is all about embracing and fully experiencing the present moment and one of the best books i have read on that subject is The power of NOW by Eckhart Tolle. Without getting bogged down in any particular religious teachings, this book guides the reader through all manner of tricks the mind can play to distract us from the present, and strategies to help focus on, and fully appreciate the only thing that is truly real in life; The infinite unfolding of the NOW.

 

[Dr.Yes]

Zen is all about embracing and fully experiencing the present moment and one of the best books i have read on that subject is The power of NOW by Eckhart Tolle. Without getting bogged down in any particular religious teachings, this book guides the reader through all manner of tricks the mind can play to distract us from the present, and strategies to help focus on, and fully appreciate the only thing that is truly real in life; The infinite unfolding of the NOW.

Yes. I've also heard or felt that Zen is a rather exclusive sort of practice where its a kind of boot camp nazi crap, a kind of brain washing technique that disallows for things other than "the now".

Anytime people focus on one aspect of being, it seems to go a little extreme and therefore, out of balance. This, I would think, is something a practitioner of any discipline would rather avoid.

 

[Simetra7]

Yes. I've also heard or felt that Zen is a rather exclusive sort of practice where its a kind of boot camp nazi crap, a kind of brain washing technique that disallows for things other than "the now".

What 'other things' are you talking about?

 

[Dr.Yes]

Yes. I've also heard or felt that Zen is a rather exclusive sort of practice where its a kind of boot camp nazi crap, a kind of brain washing technique that disallows for things other than "the now".

What 'other things' are you talking about?

Conditions other than 'the now' may include any of the following:

then, again, before, after, probability, possibility, prediction, plans, history, prehistory, imagined scenarios and so on.

 

[Simetra7]

Conditions other than 'the now' may include any of the following:

then, again, before, after, probability, possibility, prediction, plans, history, prehistory, imagined scenarios and so on.

I don't think that Zen "disallows" any of these things, but shows us that dwelling on the past or wishing for our circumstances to be different in the future does not enrich our lives because we live in the present and it is here and now where we have the power to make a difference.

 

[Dr.Yes]

I don't think that Zen "disallows" any of these things,

Let us know when you know for sure.

I haven't suggested a person should dwell on any one, single aspect of being. I am suggesting that all aspects of life, past, present and future, have something to offer in terms of usefullness and practicality. More importantly, these aspects (among others) add a balance and breadth to the near-sighted condition of "the now".

 

[somasimple]

hi All,

I just PubMed meditation and there are thousand...

Int J Neurosci. 2005 Jun;115(6):893-909.

Impact of regular meditation practice on EEG activity at rest and during evoked negative emotions.

Aftanas L, Golosheykin S.

Psychophysiology Laboratory, State Research Institute of Physiology, Siberian Branch, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Novosibirsk, Russia. aftanas@iph.ma.nsc.ru

The main objective of the present investigation was to examine how long-term meditation practice is manifested in EEG activity under conditions of non-emotional arousal (eyes-closed and eyes-open periods, viewing emotionally neutral movie clip) and while experiencing experimentally induced negative emotions (viewing aversive movie clip). The 62-channel EEG was recorded in age-matched control individuals (n=25) and Sahaja Yoga meditators (SYM, n=25). Findings from the non-emotional continuum show that at the lowest level of arousal (eyes closed) SYM manifested larger power values in theta-1 (4-6 Hz), theta-2 (6-8 Hz) and alpha-1 (8-10 Hz) frequency bands. Although increasing arousal desynchronized activity in these bands in both groups, the theta-2 and alpha-1 power in the eyes-open period and alpha-1 power while viewing the neutral clip remained still higher in the SYM. During eyes-closed and eyes-open periods the controls were marked by larger right than left hemisphere power, indexing relatively more active left hemisphere parieto-temporal cortex whereas me
ditators manifested no hemisphere asymmetry. When contrasted with the neutral, the aversive movie clip yielded significant alpha desynchronization in both groups, reflecting arousing nature of emotional induction. In the control group along with alpha desynchronization affective movie clip synchronized gamma power over anterior cortical sites. This was not seen in the SYM. Overall, the presented report emphasizes that the revealed changes in the electrical brain activity associated with regular meditation practice are dynamical by nature and depend on arousal level. The EEG power findings also provide the first empirical proof of a theoretical assumption that meditators have better capabilities to moderate intensity of emotional arousal.

Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial


PMID: 16019582 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[WeeDie]

I haven't suggested a person should dwell on any one, single aspect of being. I am suggesting that all aspects of life, past, present and future, have something to offer in terms of usefullness and practicality. More importantly, these aspects (among others) add a balance and breadth to the near-sighted condition of "the now".

I agree with this. I believe however that the argument is simply a matter of semantics. I've read Eckhart Tolles book and I think it is quite good.
Tolle uses the word NOW in terms of the nothingness that everything is happening in. He doesn't mean that only the present moment counts, he means that both the past and the future is happening in the NOW - which is of cource true because it couldn't be any other way. The future is always a concept, an idea, sense it hasn't yet happend. If you're focusing on the future it is a sure sign that you are focusing on abstractions of what is happening in the NOW. Do you see? I, as you, believe everything is of equal importance but I agree with Tolle when he says that NOW is all there is. To focus your whole attention on an abstraction, the future, is to run from life - which is happening NOW.

 

[Les Sleeth]

Let's say you wanted to understand Socrates. Do you read books by people who studied Plato's reports, or do you read Plato's reports? I don't understand all this talk about Watts, Tolles, Capra, et al when we have original texts to study. 20th century interpreters of the Buddha being studied over the Buddha himself it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Dr. Yes, I especially cannot follow this sort of thinking, "I haven't suggested a person should dwell on any one, single aspect of being. I am suggesting that all aspects of life, past, present and future, have something to offer in terms of usefullness and practicality. More importantly, these aspects (among others) add a balance and breadth to the near-sighted condition of "the now".

Understanding all aspects of life may very well have something to offer one, but what does this have to do with Zen? Study it historically, from original texts, and precede that by studying the Buddha because Zen is nothing more than a slight variation on how the Buddha taught, adjusted for the Taoist audience Bodhidarma was to address.

"NOW" is exactly, precisely, totally what Zen (and all samadhi meditation) is about. There is nothing near-sighted about it . . . rather, it is specialized. Do you think it is easy to attain the experience of now? If it were then you might have a point. But it takes years of practice, and serious dedication. So just like someone who wants to be an Olympic wrestler gets focused (tho according to you, near-sighted), to achieve the very difficult realization of "now" a person dedicates himself.

 

[Dr.Yes]

Let's say you wanted to understand Socrates. Do you read books by people who studied Plato's reports, or do you read Plato's reports? I don't understand all this talk about Watts, Tolles, Capra, et al when we have original texts to study. 20th century interpreters of the Buddha being studied over the Buddha himself it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Dr. Yes, I especially cannot follow this sort of thinking, "I haven't suggested a person should dwell on any one, single aspect of being. I am suggesting that all aspects of life, past, present and future, have something to offer in terms of usefullness and practicality. More importantly, these aspects (among others) add a balance and breadth to the near-sighted condition of "the now".

Understanding all aspects of life may very well have something to offer one, but what does this have to do with Zen? Study it historically, from original texts, and precede that by studying the Buddha because Zen is nothing more than a slight variation on how the Buddha taught, adjusted for the Taoist audience Bodhidarma was to address.

"NOW" is exactly, precisely, totally what Zen (and all samadhi meditation) is about. There is nothing near-sighted about it . . . rather, it is specialized. Do you think it is easy to attain the experience of now? If it were then you might have a point. But it takes years of practice, and serious dedication. So just like someone who wants to be an Olympic wrestler gets focused (tho according to you, near-sighted), to achieve the very difficult realization of "now" a person dedicates himself.

Hello Les, I have a good understanding of the tao (way) and the now. This has been going on for 24 years for me. I am offering a flip-side or the shadow side of Zen where I view it's focus on "the now" as a resource among many other available resources. Nothing more. Nothing special about it. Equal in importance to learning wrestling, as you have mentioned.

Claude Monet (an early impressionist artist) was near-sighted. This condition helped him to produce what we view today as masterpieces of impressionism.

Monet's near-sightedness was a resource that was useful in his endeavour. That doesn't mean it was the gospel to all art or even all impressionist art. In this case near-sightedness was simply one of an infinite number of conditions from which one can draw resources.

As for your confused state concerning the book list I posted: I recommend staying in the now and accepting those events that you have attracted to yourself.

 

[Dr.Yes]

I agree with this. I believe however that the argument is simply a matter of semantics. I've read Eckhart Tolles book and I think it is quite good.
Tolle uses the word NOW in terms of the nothingness that everything is happening in. He doesn't mean that only the present moment counts, he means that both the past and the future is happening in the NOW - which is of cource true because it couldn't be any other way. The future is always a concept, an idea, sense it hasn't yet happend. If you're focusing on the future it is a sure sign that you are focusing on abstractions of what is happening in the NOW. Do you see? I, as you, believe everything is of equal importance but I agree with Tolle when he says that NOW is all there is. To focus your whole attention on an abstraction, the future, is to run from life - which is happening NOW.

Quite often a carpenter will have to focus on the future and wonder if he can fit a piece of wood into a slot or whathaveyou. He must contemplate the future in order to work in the now on the piece of wood that must fit into the slot in the future.

The carpenter uses the future as a resource that is helpful in constructing somthing in the now that will remain for some time, into the future... and become something from the past which may also be useful at another point.

You said someone named Tolle wrote " NOW in terms of the nothingness that everything is happening in".

This is an assumption. My assumption is that nothingness is a part of everything and that everything is simply... happening.

I cannot confirm or deny that everything is happening in something. Therefore, I'd rather not assume anything of the sort. Thanks!

 

[Les Sleeth]

Hello Les, I have a good understanding of the tao (way) and the now.

What does the Tao have to do with Zen? Taoists aren't reknown for meditation, but rather for participating in life a certain way, in harmony with the Tao. This has absolutely nothing to do with Zen.

This has been going on for 24 years for me. I am offering a flip-side or the shadow side of Zen where I view it's focus on "the now" as a resource among many other available resources. Nothing more. Nothing special about it. Equal in importance to learning wrestling, as you have mentioned.

What is the shadow side of Zen, meditation? Zen IS meditation and the experience that results when that meditation is successful, period.

Sorry, but I don't think you are making sense. We are in a thread talking about Zen meditation, and what it might offer. So what if there are other valuable resources? (I assume you mean conscious resources.) We aren't talking about other resources, we are talking about Zen.

As for your confused state concerning the book list I posted: I recommend staying in the now and accepting those events that you have attracted to yourself.

I am not confused, I just don't think you know much about Zen, yet you are acting like you do. Watts was a lifelong alcoholic, who nonetheless thought he could expound on Zen philosophically. I read him quite a bit when I first started meditating, so I'm not guessing when I say he was trying to explain silence by talking about it. See the problem?

Today all the lazy people think they get to be an expert on Zen by reading books, when the people who made Zen a reality had to meditate for decades. I am into my fourth decade of daily meditation and I am pretty sure I can recognize when someone is experienced in meditation and when they are talking from theory. Which are you? Here's a sampling of your thinking which I say gives away you are philosophizing sans experience:

There are Zen practitioners who have spent 20 years painting the image of the same mountain for 20 years. Through this disciplined approach to understanding a phenomenon, there is the belief that the practitioner will understand every mountain, every tree, every river, every rock and everything else, just by concentrating, fully and wholey on one aspect of their environment.

You might be right that there are people doing this, but it isn't anything the Buddha or followers faithful to his teaching ever recommended. This is something made up by people who believe as you stated you believe, "Personally, I am of the belief that Jack of All Trades, Master of None can evolve into a form of what the Zenists have tended to attempt to attain." Such thinkers decided they could interpret the Buddha's teaching anyway they pleased, and did just that. But I say Bodhidarma was true to the Buddha's teaching, and that the only true Ch'an/Zen masters have been those true to the Buddha's teaching. If you want to call devotees of bastardized approaches "masters" then make them masters of archery or motorcycle maintenance, not Zen.

Before you claim you can do what Zen masters have done, don't you think you need to understand what samadhi is? What is, or I should say, was Zen? As I pointed out in my first post to this thread, Zen is the later Japanese pronuciation of the Chinese word chan-na -- abbreveated Ch’an -- which was their rendering of the sanskrit word dhyana, which means meditation. The realization that can come from samadhi meditation the Buddha taught is what Ch'an, and early Zen was all about.

It is a very specific skill, and requires a very specific practice. You are really misleading people (and this is why I am challenging you) when you claim someone can realize via the jack-of-all-trades approach what someone realizes through a dedicated meditation practice. I know because I do both, and I know that there is no possible way to get what one gets from meditation any other way than from doing the work of meditation.

A true meditator knows that to practice, one has to actually reverse one's attention 180° from the usual "out there" focus to a totally inside focus. It is not the normal way consciousness operates, and it take a lot of practice to get anywhere. So how does one go around doing only out-there stuff and attain that inner realization? When someone tells me they meditate by staring at candles or a wall, or by communing with nature, or by mastering archery or painting . . . I know they are lost (when it comes to Zen) because they are focused in the wrong direction.

I am not trying to say that your practices are wrong, or even that they might not be superior to a true Zen practice. If they work for you that's fine. What I am trying to say is that you haven't been speaking accurately about Zen.

 

[Simetra7]

[/QUOTE]Today all the lazy people think they get to be an expert on Zen by reading books, when the people who made Zen a reality had to meditate for decades.[/QUOTE]



You stated in your first post in this thread that anyone who is serious about learning Zen meditation should be careful about who they let teach them. In your opinion, is learning from a master of the original teachings the only way to truly learn this ancient discipline, and if so, are there many Zen masters around the world who still teach this way.