Approaching a Gorgeous Intelligent Girl in High School

[theJorge551]

A year is nothing Jorge. Be yourself.

Yep, got that ;) thanks

 

[GeorginaS]

At least in the 1960s (codger disclaimer!) the women did not have the "power" if they were much younger than than the men. And (in my limited experience) they did not have the "power" over much younger guys unless they got pretty explicit. In my case, I'd hug up my cheerleader buddy every time she grabbed me for a dance, but she would let me go back to the younger crowd each time. If she ever told me that she'd live with her folks and wait for me to graduate, I probably would have tried to graduate ahead of time.

Hrm, okay, I think I wasn't clear enough when I said I've been told by some men that they perceive women have all the power in love relationships. (Even back in the "old days".) What they expressed to me was the belief that women held/hold all of the emotional power thereby it perpetually being the guy who gets squashed.

As for unclear signals, sorry, but that's not the sole purview of women.

 

[Pinu7]

Lmfao, I now have a goal...
But more seriously, I have noticed several subtle (by absolutely NO means "strong and clear") signs from her, though it does take a very trained eye to decipher it. I'll have to keep reading into those signs, lol

Don't decipher, ask her out!

 

[GeorginaS]

Don't decipher, ask her out!

Read the whole thread!

 

[theJorge551]

Don't decipher, ask her out!

Lol, I know, deciphering is in the meantime. I'm not going to ask her out online (exclusively in person, IMO), so I have a little while to think before I see her again on Tuesday :P

 

[zoobyshoe]

Lmfao, I now have a goal...
But more seriously, I have noticed several subtle (by absolutely NO means "strong and clear") signs from her, though it does take a very trained eye to decipher it. I'll have to keep reading into those signs, lol

If a girl gives a "strong and clear signal", as per my examples, it's an incredibly refreshing experience.

I think it's possible to quickly get bogged down in trying to decipher a girl's signals, though, such that things go nowhere. Most girls are relatively passive. It's better to "lead", to actively direct things to deeper and deeper involvement, even in the absence of a clear feel for how she'll react.

 

[theJorge551]

If a girl gives a "strong and clear signal", as per my examples, it's an incredibly refreshing experience.

I think it's possible to quickly get bogged down in trying to decipher a girl's signals, though, such that things go nowhere. Most girls are relatively passive. It's better to "lead", to actively direct things to deeper and deeper involvement, even in the absence of a clear feel for how she'll react.

Thanks zooby, excellent piece of advice. I won't try to look deeper than I have to, given the subtle signals I already know of, but I do agree with you, in the fact that she might respond with better effect to more initiative on my part. She seems extremely interesting, and I think she'll open up more as I try to make our now beginning friendship progress (anyone up for a conservation of momentum reference?).

 

[DaveC426913]

If a girl gives a "strong and clear signal", as per my examples, it's an incredibly refreshing experience.

There is a reason people don't send strong and clear signals.

Forgive this analogy:

Imagine being in an antique market. You spot a gorgeous piece of Art Glass. You send a clear and unambiguous signal ("Wow! I want that!") to the vendor.

How much leverage do you have on negotiating? What are your chances now that you will now come out of the bargain with the best arrangement you can get?

Roll back. Spot the Art Glass again. This time, show some serious interest but don't look like a push-over. Now what kind of leverage do you have?

 

[zoobyshoe]

There is a reason people don't send strong and clear signals.

Forgive this analogy:

Imagine being in an antique market. You spot a gorgeous piece of Art Glass. You send a clear and unambiguous signal ("Wow! I want that!") to the vendor.

How much leverage do you have on negotiating? What are your chances now that you will now come out of the bargain with the best arrangement you can get?

Roll back. Spot the Art Glass again. This time, show some serious interest but don't look like a push-over. Now what kind of leverage do you have?

I'm not talking about hookers, Dave.

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm not talking about hookers, Dave.

Neither am I. The analogy si not about money; it is about negotiating power in a relationship.

Whatever the girls wants out of the relationship (unless it is exactly the same as what he wants), she does not do herself a favour by tipping her entire hand up front.

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm not talking about hookers, Dave.

Neither am I. The analogy is not about money; it is about negotiating power in a relationship. Any relationship.

Whatever the girl wants out of the relationship (unless it is exactly the same as what he wants), she does not do herself a favour by tipping her entire hand up front.

 

[russ_watters]

Guys crush themselves after the fact, too, when they realize how stupid they were when ignoring ladies (older or younger) that were sending out strong and clear signals.

Yeah, that one really kills me.

 

[russ_watters]

Well, likely he does know that, and I only said that because I've known a few men who seem to believe that women have all of the power in love relationships.

My apologies to Russ.

It's ok, but in any case while I know women get crushed too, the way they get crushed is a little different and, yes, I knew the OP was a guy.

 

[GeorginaS]

It's ok, but in any case while I know women get crushed too, the way they get crushed is a little different and, yes, I knew the OP was a guy.

I'm interested to hear how you think it's different.

 

[Matterwave]

Lol, I know, deciphering is in the meantime. I'm not going to ask her out online (exclusively in person, IMO), so I have a little while to think before I see her again on Tuesday :P

Yea, don't ask girls out online...that's a bad road to take...>_>

 

[Math Is Hard]

It's ok, but in any case while I know women get crushed too, the way they get crushed is a little different and, yes, I knew the OP was a guy.

I'm interested to hear how you think it's different.

I'm interested to hear that, too. Does "the way they get crushed" refer to the way the rejection is delivered, or how comparatively rotten you think they feel afterward?

 

[GeorginaS]

If a girl gives a "strong and clear signal", as per my examples, it's an incredibly refreshing experience.

You reside amongst the exceptions.

There is a reason people don't send strong and clear signals.

Forgive this analogy:

Your analogy is apt, but I disagree with your analysis and break-down of it.

There remains, to this day, the horrid double-standard in what's acceptable in terms of male and female sexual/partnering/mating behaviour. I thought it was (actually it was wishful thinking) a thing of the past, but nope, it's alive and well.

I disagree, Dave, that it's about power in a relationship or leveraging for what you want and more about perception. So your antique shopping analogy works well, because if you see a lovely antique that someone is willing to give to you, you're likely to value it less than if it came to you at some cost, no matter what form that takes.

I work with a number of single young people, and participate in gaming forums populated by younger people, and they still hold, what I consider, really old fashioned ideas about guys not valuing women who will have sex with them too readily. Males still value "the chase" and consider it a measure (I don't have to explain this old, worn, tired idea, do I?) of a woman and her self esteem and value of her own self-image if she "gives it up" too easily/soon/readily. And! Young women believe the same things too. Really, the sexual revolution that we thought would bring us the freedom for women to say, "Hey, I want to, too!" hasn't wrought what we thought it might or hoped it would.

Young women, certainly, are more sure of themselves in a whole bunch of other areas of their lives, they're smart, educated, ambitious, and don't in the least think they can't compete easily with males. But the whole mating dance thing? And young women not wanting to be perceived as "cheap and easy" because young men will perceive them that way, has not changed.

So I wouldn't say it's so much about power or negotiating to get what you want (although getting what one wants is what everyone's discussing, here) but, on a young woman's part, trying to be a whole person who makes her own decisions while still being saddled with antiquated ideas about decorum. Dignity is another thing, and should be maintained for everyone involved. I agree with Zooby in that there's no loss of dignity in saying, "This is what I want" but the rest of the world isn't quite ready to let women have that yet.

 

[cronxeh]

If a woman is intelligent and gives it up easily, she is not considered to be a slut. The guy is considered to be lucky. The opposite is true, if a woman is a total bimbo and she gives it up easily, well you will get yourself tested for STDs and remind yourself to quit drinking. It is obvious why guys value intelligent+gorgeous+available women to be superior to stupid+gorgeous+available or intelligent+gorgeous+taken or intelligent+ugly+available. Simple gene propagation on subconscious level.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Neither am I. The analogy si not about money; it is about negotiating power in a relationship.

Whatever the girls wants out of the relationship (unless it is exactly the same as what he wants), she does not do herself a favour by tipping her entire hand up front.

No, you don't get it. These girls aren't "tipping their hand".

Another tale from back in the day: I'm walking with a bunch of kids in the woods at night. The girl I sort of paired up with; talking to her more than the others, is walking right in front of me and we're the last two in line. She turns around, stops me while the others walk into the distance, then, to my surprise, pulls me down onto the ground on top of her.

I have more such tales. In all cases the girl has just taken over. She's already the one in the power seat.

 

[theJorge551]

I have more such tales. In all cases the girl has just taken over. She's already the one in the power seat.

As much as I agree with the fact that at times, the girl in a relationship takes this role, this time I'm pretty sure that it won't apply, based on what I know so far about her. I appreciate your input though.

 

[DaveC426913]

I disagree, Dave, that it's about power in a relationship or leveraging for what you want and more about perception.

...on a young woman's part, trying to be a whole person who makes her own decisions while still being saddled with antiquated ideas about decorum. Dignity is another thing, and should be maintained for everyone involved. I agree with Zooby in that there's no loss of dignity in saying, "This is what I want" but the rest of the world isn't quite ready to let women have that yet.

She turns around, stops me while the others walk into the distance, then, to my surprise, pulls me down onto the ground on top of her.

To the both of you: I am not suggesting that, in all cases, this is the law, and I'm sure not suggesting there are rules either.

I am saying that individuals decide for themselves whether they want to negotiate for something they want. This is their prerogative, and they choose to act on it. This is no antiquated idea of decorum, this is free will, pure an simple.

That is why I used the antique dealer example. The thing she wants is hers to decide. What she wants to pay for it is also hers to decide.

Someone who doesn't tip her hand might have any number of motives:
- avoid outright rejection (the less you invest the less you might lose)
- find out if the target is interested
- attracting attention (chase them till they catch you).
It is not for us to judge what she wants.

Don't be so quick to underestimate people exercising their free will.

I have more such tales. In all cases the girl has just taken over. She's already the one in the power seat.

Why zoob, I do believe you are boasting!

 

[zoobyshoe]

As much as I agree with the fact that at times, the girl in a relationship takes this role, this time I'm pretty sure that it won't apply, based on what I know so far about her. I appreciate your input though.

What I'm saying is that in all cases I can offer from personal experience where the girl has sent a "strong and clear signal", she hasn't undervalued herself and lost power, she has, in fact, taken power. That was directed at Dave's contention that most girls don't initiate because they would lose power in the relationship. I actually think most girls don't initiate because they are simply prone to being passive.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Why zoob, I do believe you are boasting!

There's that, but my actual ulterior motive is the one evident when I first addressed turbo about this, which is to let it be known that many girls don't get what a guy will understand to be a "strong and clear signal". Girls' idea of a strong and clear signal, in many cases, can come off as a lot of pretty ambiguous mumbling. Guys really shouldn't beat themselves up when, years later an insight suddenly pops into their head, "OMG! She was coming on to me!" If it took years to decipher, how strong and clear could it actually have been?

 

[russ_watters]

I'm interested to hear that, too. Does "the way they get crushed" refer to the way the rejection is delivered, or how comparatively rotten you think they feel afterward?

It's how the "approach" happens and who is doing it that determines how the rejection is delivered and who gets it. In my experience from high school (only 15 years ago), it was still mostly the guys doing the asking and the girls doing the rejecting. And when girls did do the "approaching", more often than not it was a friend doing the actual approach - guys didn't do that as much because there is a stigma associated with it (and, probably, it doesn't work as well).

 

[rootX]

I believed the purpose of their existence was to crush males when one crushed me few years ago.

 

[rootX]

If a woman is intelligent and gives it up easily, she is not considered to be a slut. The guy is considered to be lucky.

I have trouble believing that an intelligent woman will give it up easily but zoob was talking about providing clear signal (which is co-related to the personal confidence) not easily giving up.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I believed the purpose of their existence was to crush males when one crushed me few years ago.

It is their purpose, but it's not intended to kill or maim, they just want you to go back to the drawing board and figure out what you did wrong.

Without even knowing you or the girl I am going to guess, based on the fact she crushed you, that what you did wrong was to telegraph to her that you were bedazzled or in awe and couldn't live without her. Girls hate that and their interest is only piqued when they sense the guy can take them or leave them with equanimity.

 

[rootX]

Without even knowing you or the girl I am going to guess, based on the fact she crushed you, that what you did wrong was to telegraph to her that you were bedazzled or in awe and couldn't live without her. Girls hate that and their interest is only piqued when they sense the guy can take them or leave them with equanimity.

You make too many assumptions or guesses

I don't care about it now neither consider it time worthy. In addition, I am better off.

 

[turbo]

I must have gotten lucky in HS. Never got my feelings hurt too bad.

After I had been steady-dating a young lady for almost a year, she told me that she had engineered our "incidental" hook-up at a party so she could get closer and hint around that she wanted me to ask her to our school's winter dance. At the time she had been a Freshman, and I was a Sophomore. She told her nearest neighbor (a Junior) that she wanted me to ask her to the dance, and her neighbor told her to organize a little get-together at one of my friend's houses by offering to bring sandwiches, chips and stuff. Being a guy who was offered free refreshments for a family-room party, he'd jump at it, and I'd be invited because he and I hung out a lot. My soon-to-be girlfriend said she didn't know if she could do that, and her neighbor said "He's cute. If you can't get him to invite you to the dance, I'm going to invite him myself." That was enough to get things going.

 

[zoobyshoe]

You make too many assumptions or guesses

Hmm..this could mean you were in a relationship that seemed to be going well but you caught her with another.

 

[cronxeh]

I have trouble believing that an intelligent woman will give it up easily but zoob was talking about providing clear signal (which is co-related to the personal confidence) not easily giving up.

Yeah ok Then again, it depends on your definition of 'intelligent'. The truly top percentile seem to have no social skills, and the bottom percentile seem to have a lot of social skills to the point you want to vomit all over their kabala obsessed new age monologue

 

[zoobyshoe]

Yeah ok Then again, it depends on your definition of 'intelligent'. The truly top percentile seem to have no social skills, and the bottom percentile seem to have a lot of social skills to the point you want to vomit all over their kabala obsessed new age monologue

In my experience the yoga/new age/mystical crowd is pretty deficient in social skills. They're so concerned about being nice they seem to go into denial about "bad vibes" and experience melt down instead of knowing how to handle them. My impression is that what binds these people together is that they sense in each other that they are all overly sensitive and will all go out of their way not to step on each others' toes.

 

[DaveC426913]

Guys really shouldn't beat themselves up when, years later an insight suddenly pops into their head, "OMG! She was coming on to me!" If it took years to decipher, how strong and clear could it actually have been?

So, when a girl I'd never met stopped me on my bike in front of her house to chat and said

"I have a joke. If I told you you had a great body, would you hold it against me? Ha ha."

.. I can take heart that she was probably not sending a very clear message?

 

[zoobyshoe]

So, when a girl I'd never met stopped me on my bike in front of her house to chat and said

"I have a joke. If I told you you had a great body, would you hold it against me? Ha ha."

.. I can take heart that she was probably not sending a very clear message?

It depends on what you eventually figured out the message to be, Dave.

 

[DaveC426913]

It depends on what you eventually figured out the message to be, Dave.

My friend at school mentioned he knew her. Actually, that he Knew her. And so did half the gym class.

 

[zoobyshoe]

My friend at school mentioned he knew her. Actually, that he Knew her. And so did half the gym class.

OK, in your case, you should probably beat yourself up pretty bad. As soon as my friends even mentioned they'd once made out with a girl I was on her ASAP.

 

[rootX]

So, when a girl I'd never met stopped me on my bike in front of her house to chat and said

"I have a joke. If I told you you had a great body, would you hold it against me? Ha ha."

.. I can take heart that she was probably not sending a very clear message?

Was it
ha ha
ha ha ha
he he
hehehehehehehehe..
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iys86OcXPY8
?

I believe something like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpripwOz2is
would have made clear that she is making fun of you..
I thought only males do ha ha

 

[Huckleberry]

What's up with the guys who ask for advice and then disappear without dispensing the results? It's none of my business, but I want to know what happened.

Those are some funny vids. If a guy can make a girl laugh like that then getting a date is as simple as asking for it. Other girls nearby will immediately become attracted too. I've found that if I'm enjoying myself and smiling a lot then interactions with women seem much more natural. Anxiety and moodiness seems to attract women who are similarly anxious and moody. It's nice to be around someone that one can feel comfortable with, regardless of sexual interest. For a woman, the prospect of sex is not difficult. If she feels comfortable around a guy then she begins to open up. Learning how to do this gives a guy a huge advantage over guys who can't, all other things being equal. This is why guys who are comfortable in the presence of women get more play. She doesn't want to feel awkward. Who would?

There is a subtle difference in approach that, from my experience seems to be more effective. Don't bother trying to convince a woman to be interested in you. She either will be or won't be. There isn't much a guy can do about that. Rather, just avoid unconvincing the women that would consider you. The best way to do this is to be comfortable with yourself. Confidence seems particularly fascinating to women.

My advice to any guy that is considering asking a girl out, but is afraid of getting crushed, is to ask her out and fully expect to be crushed. You'll be stronger for it, and if she already likes you then she might think your anxiety is cute and give you a chance. Don't be bitter or melancholy if she shoots you down. There will be others. Stop thinking about that girl by finding another that is better suited for you.

 

[theJorge551]

Sorry about that huckleberry, lol. I thought that the thread had pretty much died down and no immediate changes had occurred when it did, so I pretty much left it, haha...but thanks for your attentiveness, you got me to give you guys an update!

Since me and this girl have no classes together and sparingly used to give some glances in passing through the hall, I introduced myself but quickly learned that she isn't really the type of person whom a guy can just ask out without previously knowing on some sort of friendly level..we're starting to get into contact, I guess I could be considered an "acquaintance", but I did get her number, and she is showing signs that she might like me :D lol, I plan on progressing things just a little bit over the week, and hopefully by Friday I'll be at the stage where I can give her a small valentine's day gift and she'd expect it, more or less :P

 

[Huckleberry]

Way to go. Glad to hear it. You've got the courage to actually do something, and you maintain realistic expectations. That's refreshing. I think you'll be alright.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I plan on progressing things just a little bit over the week, and hopefully by Friday I'll be at the stage where I can give her a small valentine's day gift and she'd expect it, more or less :P

I wouldn't give her a Valentine's Day gift. A gesture like that doesn't work the way you think it is supposed to, and is counter-productive on many levels. It's very likely to turn you into a supplicant in her mind. She may enjoy that for the ego boost, and to milk you for more gifts, or, she may get the queasy feeling you feel she's too good for you which will drive her away. Either way you have lost the appeal of being a challenge, and her interest will dwindle. There is really only a small subset of women who are romantic in the way women are alleged to be romantic. The rest view gifts like this as guys sucking up to them in the hope of getting affection or sex.

If you hear a woman say she wishes men gave more flowers and made romantic gestures you can be sure she's complaining about someone she's been involved with who has a long, unmitigated history of thoughtlessness and selfishness. Women pretty much only want a gesture like that from a guy who wouldn't make a gesture like that.

I wouldn't give her a Valentine's gift unless you're absolutely certain she's already secretly harboring a serious case of the hots for you. Those are the only circumstances under which it will have the desired effect. Otherwise it will be an invitation for her to exploit you, or a cause for her to withdraw from you.

Down at the cafe where I hang out I am currently watching a little drama of a very hot girl being pursued by a "nice" guy who plies her with presents. In fact, he once interrupted a conversation I was having with her to give her a box of relatively expensive chocolates. She received them graciously, and with apparent gratitude, and after she'd ate a couple she offered me some, right in front of him. I'm not sure he was happy about that. "He's a very sweet guy", she said after he'd left, "Very, very sweet guy."

"Has he asked you out?"

"He's asks me out all the time."

"You're not interested?"

"Nope, not really."

This guy has telegraphed loud and clear that he thinks she's out of his league, and his presents just come off as 'tributes to a superior being'. That's not attractive.

 

[Pyrrhus]

This thread is full of great advice by Zooby, Dave, Georgia, Moonbearand Russ. You can actually breathe the experience of dealing with rejection :shy: and you can almost see the passing memories of regretted events . That's how Life is. Life is about risks, so stop being so damn risk averse, and be confident . Don't wait for the kiss, go for it. Don't wait to ask her out, ask her out, and so on. And most importantly, RESPECT yourself!, and have STANDARDS. No Mr. Doormat, be NICE and recognize when it's NOT worth your time (i.e. 2-3 years pursuing the same girl?).

 

[theJorge551]

lol, thanks to everyone who still pays enough care to mind this next post, and I'm sorry for such waits between updates!

I didn't see zoobyshoe's message until after i had already done the deed, but i did work up a small relationship and gave her a red rose on friday morning, swooning her just a bit and showing her outright that i am highly interested...i'd been hinting at it before and now there really isn't a doubt in my mind that she knows. She welcomed it with open arms, and i can honestly say that I've never seen a girl smile so much

We've been talking a lot soon after, and i have a date-esque thing going on next Saturday. Thanks everyone for all of your great advice, i'll try to keep updating regularly