Are flow work and work done during isobaric expansion similar?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between flow work and work done during isobaric expansion, exploring whether these concepts are analogous. Participants delve into the implications of these concepts in the context of thermodynamics, particularly focusing on energy transfer and the work-energy principle.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that isobaric expansion involves constant external pressure, while flow work involves fluid pushing against varying pressures at the inlet and outlet of a control volume.
  • Others argue that the analogy between isobaric expansion and flow work is not valid, as the inlet and outlet pressures in an open system are not necessarily the same.
  • A participant questions why flow work is not included in kinetic energy in Bernoulli's equation, suggesting a potential disconnect in how these forms of energy are treated.
  • Another participant requests clarification on the equation being referenced to better understand the relationship between flow work and kinetic energy.
  • One participant explains that flow work contributes to changes in kinetic energy and other forms of energy, emphasizing that kinetic energy is not the only energy form considered in the relevant thermodynamic equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the analogy between flow work and isobaric expansion, with no consensus reached on this point. Additionally, there is ongoing uncertainty regarding the treatment of flow work and kinetic energy in thermodynamic equations.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific equations and concepts from thermodynamics, indicating a need for clarity on how different energy terms are defined and related. The discussion highlights the complexity of energy interactions in open systems.

Mohankpvk
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In case of isobaric expansion, the system expands at constant pressure(the external pressure i.e. the resistance is constant.).In case of flow work, the fluid trying to exit the control volume, pushes against the pressure at the exit of the control volume or when entering the control volume, the surrounding pushes the fluid against the pressure at the inlet.Are these similar?
 
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Mohankpvk said:
In case of isobaric expansion, the system expands at constant pressure(the external pressure i.e. the resistance is constant.).In case of flow work, the fluid trying to exit the control volume, pushes against the pressure at the exit of the control volume or when entering the control volume, the surrounding pushes the fluid against the pressure at the inlet.Are these similar?
I don't see the analogy, since, in the open system case, the inlet and outlet pressures are not necessarily the same.
 
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Chestermiller said:
I don't see the analogy, since, in the open system case, the inlet and outlet pressures are not necessarily the same.
Ok.I just have another doubt. As per work energy principle, the energy spent in moving an object is stored as kinetic energy.Flow work is done to make the fluid move.In Bernouli's equation, why is it not included in kinetic energy (i.e) why kinetic energy and flow work are considered separately?
 
Mohankpvk said:
Ok.I just have another doubt. As per work energy principle, the energy spent in moving an object is stored as kinetic energy.Flow work is done to make the fluid move.In Bernouli's equation, why is it not included in kinetic energy (i.e) why kinetic energy and flow work are considered separately?
I don't understand what your asking. Can you write down an equation and identify the specific terms you are referring to?
 
Chestermiller said:
I don't understand what your asking. Can you write down an equation and identify the specific terms you are referring to?
I took the equation in the photograph from "The fundamentals of thermodynamics" by Moran et. al. I have marked the flow work and the kinetic energy terms.My doubt is that if work done in moving the fluid will be stored as kinetic energy of the fluid then why K.E. and flow work are considered as two different terms?
IMG_20180615_224618.jpg
 

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The flow work represents the work required to push the fluid into and out of the control volume. This contributes to the changes in kinetic energy (as well as to other forms of energy included in the equation). Kinetic energy is not the only form of energy contained in the equation. There is also internal energy (of the fluid) and potential energy. In this open system form of the first law of thermodynamics, the next step is to lump the pv terms together with the internal energy entering and exiting to obtain the enthalpy of the flowing fluid entering and leaving.
 

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