Are Moment Arm & Common Perpendicular Different?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differences between the Moment Arm and the Common Perpendicular in the context of engineering mechanics problems. Participants explore the implications of these concepts in both two-dimensional and three-dimensional scenarios, examining specific processes outlined in a textbook by Ferdinand L. Singer.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note discrepancies in their results when using Moment Component versus Common Perpendicular, indicating confusion over why their answers differ.
  • It is mentioned that in one process, there is a division by |DA||CB|, while in another, the division is by |DAxCB|, which some participants identify as a key difference.
  • Some participants assert that the Moment Arm is always shorter than the Common Perpendicular, yet express confusion over why they should not be the same in three dimensions.
  • One participant suggests that viewing the system along the line of the perpendicular distance reveals that the force is not orthogonal to BC, which complicates the relationship between the two concepts.
  • Another participant proposes that the moment about the nearest point on BC would not be parallel to BC in three dimensions, which could clarify the differences observed.
  • There is a recognition that this confusion is not typically addressed in general Engineering Mechanics courses, leading to an interesting discovery about the physical differences between the factors |DA||BC| and |DA×BC|.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying viewpoints on the relationship between Moment Arm and Common Perpendicular, with some asserting they should be the same while others highlight their differences. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached on the underlying reasons for the discrepancies.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that their understanding is complicated by the transition from two-dimensional to three-dimensional scenarios, and there are unresolved aspects regarding the definitions and implications of the Moment Arm and Common Perpendicular.

Diptangshu
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Not only the Problem I have attached in Picture, but there are few more where I get different answer while solving by taking Moment Component and by Common Perpendicular.

[NB : The problem Stated in 'Engineering Mechanics' by Ferdinand L. Singer. Process 3 is what I did, Process 1 is what is done in the Book & Process 2 is done for Verification by me]
It is clear that the Book is correct, but I cannot find out why my answer [Process 3] is not Matching.

No book can Clarify the Issue except a Real Teacher. I am Confused & Waiting eagerly for the Answer.
 
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I haven't found the error yet, but I see what the difference is between the two results. In process 1 there is effectively a division by |DA||CB|, where in process 3 the division is by |DAxCB|.
 
haruspex said:
I haven't found the error yet, but I see what the difference is between the two results. In process 1 there is effectively a division by |DA||CB|, where in process 3 the division is by |DAxCB|.
Yes, me too discovered the same ratio. And according to magnitude laws... Moment Arm is always shorter than Common Perpendicular.
But they should have been the Same! Very Intriguing.
 
Diptangshu said:
Moment Arm is always shorter than Common Perpendicular.
Doh! That's it.
If you view the system along the line of the perpendicular distance, the force does not appear quite orthogonal to BC. You have to restrict to the component that is.
 
haruspex said:
I haven't found the error yet, but I see what the difference is between the two results. In process 1 there is effectively a division by |DA||CB|, where in process 3 the division is by |DAxCB|.
Yes, me too discovered the same ratio. And according to magnitude laws... Moment Arm is always shorter than Common Perpendicular.
But they should have been the Same! Very Intriguing.
haruspex said:
Doh! That's it.
If you view the system along the line of the perpendicular distance, the force does not appear quite orthogonal to BC. You have to restrict to the component that is.
I Think so... There is no other way to Explain it.
But it is quite hard to visualize in mind. Because common Perpendicular should have been shortest distance and hence it should be Moment arm,as in 2 Dimensional Plane. Why they don't match in 3 Dimensions... It's weird!
 
Diptangshu said:
common Perpendicular should have been shortest distance and hence it should be Moment arm
That certainly gives the moment about the nearest point on BC, and in a two dimensional plane that would be the answer. But here that moment would not be parallel to BC.
It might be clearer if you move B so that BC and AD are parallel. The perpendicular distance is still nonzero, but the moment about BC is zero.
 
haruspex said:
That certainly gives the moment about the nearest point on BC, and in a two dimensional plane that would be the answer. But here that moment would not be parallel to BC.
It might be clearer if you move B so that BC and AD are parallel. The perpendicular distance is still nonzero, but the moment about BC is zero.
Thank you.
This must be the explanation.

But this confusion is never encountered in general Engineering Mechanics course. Nowhere it is said, that the two lengths are different.
Very interesting fact is discovered here.

The factors |DA||BC| & |DA×BC|... Their physical difference is interesting.
New Doc 2017-05-21_1.jpg

Oops... for 0<Ѳ<90
 
Last edited:

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