Area of sphere-continuum mechanics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the area of a sphere using continuum mechanics concepts, specifically focusing on the integral involving the tensor product of the unit normal vector and the area element in spherical coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an integral involving the tensor product of the unit normal vector, questioning its meaning in the context of finding the area of a sphere.
  • Another participant suggests that the expression represents the tensor product of the unit normal vector by itself, noting that its purpose depends on the context.
  • A different participant clarifies that the tensor product can denote a projection operator for a unit vector, providing a mathematical definition in Cartesian components.
  • One participant seeks clarification on the definition of the normal vector in spherical coordinates.
  • Another participant provides a parametrization of the sphere and discusses the area element in terms of partial derivatives, expressing uncertainty about the relevance of the normal vector in this context.
  • A participant describes the surface normal vectors as unit vectors in the direction of the parametrization, detailing the integration process to find the surface area of the sphere.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the connection between the dyadic product and the original question regarding the area calculation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the tensor product and its relevance to the area calculation, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a clear consensus on the relationship between the concepts discussed.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the assumptions made about the normal vector and its application in the integral, as well as the dependence on the definitions used in the context of continuum mechanics.

merav1985
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suppose I have a sphere that has radius with the vlaue of 1.
the integral is:∫∫n⊗ndA
where dA = sinθdθdφ

what is n⊗n?
I'm supposed to the area of the sphere.

This question was in an exam in continuum mechanics in the Technion
 
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It looks like the tensor product of the unit normal vector by itself. For which purpose such an expression is considered depends on the environment
 
Welcome to Physics Forums!

What's the context? Usually ##\vec{a} \otimes \vec{b}## denotes the tensor product of two vectors. In Cartesian components it denotes the tensor ##T_{jk}=a_j b_k##. For a unit vector ##\vec{n}## it's also the projection operator to this direction, ##\vec{a}_n=\vec{n} \otimes \vec{n} \cdot \vec{a}=\vec{n} (\vec{n} \cdot \vec{a})##.
 
I'm supposed to find the area of the sphere.

This question was in an exam in continuum mechanics in the Technion

what is n in sphere coordinates?
 
If the sphere is determined by the equation ##\boldsymbol r=\boldsymbol r(\theta,\phi)## then the area element can be expressed in outdated terms as follows ##dA=\Big|\frac{\partial\boldsymbol r}{\partial \theta}\times\frac{\partial\boldsymbol r}{\partial \phi}\Big|d\theta d\phi##. I can not find another reason to mention the normal vector in this context
 
On the surface of a sphere with its center at the origin, n is the same as the unit vector in the spherical coordinate radial direction.
 
A sphere can be parametrized by spherical coordinates (with the exception of the two points at the polar axis):
$$\vec{x}(\vartheta,\varphi)=R \begin{pmatrix} \sin \vartheta \cos \varphi \\ \sin \vartheta \sin \varphi \\ \cos \vartheta \end{pmatrix}.$$
The coordinate lines build a mesh, defining tangent vectors which span the surface-vector elements
$$\mathrm{d} \vec{F} = \mathrm{d} \vartheta \mathrm{d} \varphi \frac{\partial \vec{x}}{\partial \vartheta} \times \frac{\partial \vec{x}}{\partial \varphi} = R^2 \sin \vartheta \begin{pmatrix} \sin \vartheta \cos \varphi \\ \sin \vartheta \sin \varphi \\ \cos \vartheta \end{pmatrix}.$$
The surface normal vectors are the unit vectors in direction of ##\vec{x}##, i.e.,
$$\vec{n} = \frac{\vec{x}}{|\vec{x}|}=\frac{\vec{x}}{R} = \begin{pmatrix} \sin \vartheta \cos \varphi \\ \sin \vartheta \sin \varphi \\ \cos \vartheta \end{pmatrix}.$$
To evaluate the surface of the sphere you just take the modulus of the surface vectors and integrate over ##\vartheta \in [0,\pi]##, ##\varphi \in [0,2 \pi]##:
$$S=\int_{0}^{\pi} \mathrm{d} \vartheta \int_0^{2 \pi} \mathrm{\varphi} R^2 \sin \vartheta=4 \pi R^2,$$
as it should be.

I'm still not sure, what all this has to do with your original question, where you look at a dyad (Kornecker product ##\vec{n} \otimes \vec{n}##), which is a 2nd-rank tensor by definition.
 
vanhees71 said:
A sphere can be parametrized by spherical coordinates (with the exception of the two points at the polar axis):
$$\vec{x}(\vartheta,\varphi)=R \begin{pmatrix} \sin \vartheta \cos \varphi \\ \sin \vartheta \sin \varphi \\ \cos \vartheta \end{pmatrix}.$$
The coordinate lines build a mesh, defining tangent vectors which span the surface-vector elements
$$\mathrm{d} \vec{F} = \mathrm{d} \vartheta \mathrm{d} \varphi \frac{\partial \vec{x}}{\partial \vartheta} \times \frac{\partial \vec{x}}{\partial \varphi} = R^2 \sin \vartheta \begin{pmatrix} \sin \vartheta \cos \varphi \\ \sin \vartheta \sin \varphi \\ \cos \vartheta \end{pmatrix}.$$
The surface normal vectors are the unit vectors in direction of ##\vec{x}##, i.e.,
$$\vec{n} = \frac{\vec{x}}{|\vec{x}|}=\frac{\vec{x}}{R} = \begin{pmatrix} \sin \vartheta \cos \varphi \\ \sin \vartheta \sin \varphi \\ \cos \vartheta \end{pmatrix}.$$
To evaluate the surface of the sphere you just take the modulus of the surface vectors and integrate over ##\vartheta \in [0,\pi]##, ##\varphi \in [0,2 \pi]##:
$$S=\int_{0}^{\pi} \mathrm{d} \vartheta \int_0^{2 \pi} \mathrm{\varphi} R^2 \sin \vartheta=4 \pi R^2,$$
as it should be.

I'm still not sure, what all this has to do with your original question, where you look at a dyad (Kornecker product ##\vec{n} \otimes \vec{n}##), which is a 2nd-rank tensor by definition.
 
thank you all very much! you have all directed me to the right answer
 

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