Arranged Marriage: Love vs. Material Benefits

[Justinius]

I apologize if this thread has been overdone.

Arranged marriage is practiced in many religions. People within these religions are betrothed to friends of parents, or other children of friends of parents, etc. However, should marriage not be about love? And if betrothed marriage is not about love, then is it morally wrong? Why have so many people ignored love in marriage in order to marry into money or other material ammenities? Can love grow within these marriages?

 

[Pengwuino]

I answer your question with... another question! Is marriage being about love only the case in certain religions? If so, does it make it morally wrong in religions where its not suppose to be about love?

Why have so many people ignored love in marriage in order to marry into money or other material ammenities?

I think you answered your own question there

 

[Justinius]

In arranged marriage, a parental force is involved in making the decision about the marriage from the man or woman's childhood. Marriage should be about happiness, as when one is married, one spends the rest of his/her life with that person. Therefore, happiness with the partner is key to the survival of the marriage. In love comes happiness. Therefore, marriage should be about love.

In marital love comes marital consecration. If there is no marital love (ie. the two are betrothed), then true consecration cannot be acheived, because intercourse is a gesture of love. If this is the case, then the marriage cannot be completely true. Thus, without love, true consecration is never achieved, meaning the main purpose of marriage is not accomplished.

 

[sneez]

Arranged marriage is the only "correct" marriage as confirmed by science as far as i know. Love does not exists in the meaning of some esotheric something somewhere. There is no "someone special" waiting for anybody. Its all chemistry and its proven that actually dating and living together does damage the system its setup for humans.

which way you want this thread to go? we can talk about the chemistry of love or we can get into the social aspect of it.

sneez

 

[Pengwuino]

Your taking this from a different view then the people who actually practice arranged marriage. It is simply our own opinions that marriage should be about love. Maybe people who do arranged marriages have it in their culture that marriage is not about love.

Lets take business as an example. Some of us, maybe many, might believe that business is not business unless your looking for the cheapest price for your customer, quick '1 night stands' with other businesses in a rough and tumble world. In a different culture, many people might believe business is not at all about prices and quick relationships, but more about forging long term friendships and networking with many people.

Is either view right? We are trained in the western world to believe my first description of business is the correct definition or at least the definition we like to use. Maybe in a different culture they are trained to believe the second example is the correct means of doing things.

And actually to make a better example... maybe to them, the most important thing about a marriage is not being with someone you love or having sex... maybe its about having children that go on to be successful or well mannered or whatever. Maybe what we believe is the goal of a marriage is not the same thing other people believe is the goal of marriage.

 

[Pengwuino]

Arranged marriage is the only "correct" marriage as confirmed by science as far as i know. Love does not exists in the meaning of some esotheric something somewhere. There is no "someone special" waiting for anybody. Its all chemistry and its proven that actually dating and living together does damage the system its setup for humans.

which way you want this thread to go? we can talk about the chemistry of love or we can get into the social aspect of it.

How is it confirmed by science? Dont they just pick whoever they want?

And i think this thread is suppose to be social since he's talken about love.

 

[sneez]

Note that love in the sense poets, movies and in general conversations does not EXISTS. SO what love do you want to talk about ?

 

[Pengwuino]

Well what is this "correct" marriage you talk of and what is the love that actually exists?

 

[sneez]

This is what we know about today.

Scientists are finding that, after all, love really is down to a chemical addiction between people.OVER the course of history it has been artists, poets and playwrights who have made the greatest progress in humanity's understanding of love. Romance has seemed as inexplicable as the beauty of a rainbow. But these days scientists are challenging that notion, and they have rather a lot to say about how and why people love each other.

The falling in love part, is the one I am going to concentrate on because it will show that arranged marriage is the only way!
All relationships, whether they are those of parents with their children, spouses with their partners, or workers with their colleagues, rely on an ability to create and maintain social ties.

I want to make it very simple to keep it short so this is what you need for "love".

two hormones called oxytocin and vasopressin are responsible for falling in love. The intial attraction is related to smell, ie pheromones. Testosteron is related to outside features as well as pheromones production. (this testosteron business is very interesting one).
So actuall what we learn without going into details is that "love" ie the chemical release and forming of dompamine in the brain (the feel good feeling) and hormones is very sterssfull for a body. Body does not by nature want to be in stress. The "love" (stress) is to ensure reproduction!

There are 3 stages in love. 1. The drive, 2. The romance, 3. attachement.
The drive is pretty much the need/want to reproduce
the romance is to narrow it down to one person (there is very interesting chemistry behind this one). This is the one when we fell "oooh, this one is the one i want! "
the attachement is concerned with descreasy of testosteron in males and changind "smell" (feromones) for females to ensure protection for the kids, ie to make sure that the famle is going to be taken care of by the male.

If we date and all the crazy stuff. If we try to abuse the body to keep falling in love and out if we keep the brain releasing hormones of love but than socially break it, the brain will create tolerance, and plus it not going to be nothing new for the brain. The experience goes down the mechanism is "overridden by social system which results in "crippled" minds of youth.

Ever wondered why first love is the stronges ? !

Thats why arranged marriage partners have NO choice but to fall in love! Its chemistry. The hormones get released and that's it. It math ! there is no way out of it.

Note i kept is i think too simple to make it short, if you want i give you link to go to to read upon the beauty of chemistry of love.

sneez

 

[Kerrie]

The one flaw I see in an arranged marriage is those who are doing the arranging. They do not necessarily know what's best for their children when it comes to love for the opposite sex because the love between a parent and child are different then the love two equals have for one another.

The one thing about arranged marriages I can see is that it "forces" two people to get along and make the marriage work. Not sure I would like that now since in my culture we are allowed a freedom to leave an abusive relationship if necessary. If there is abuse in an arranged marriage (even verbal), that would feel so depressing.

 

[sneez]

Actually what i have read its the same love chanelled (interpretted by the brain differently).

Arranged marriage must work better than random encounter for the previous reasons and if we look at societies who do have arranged marriage they have much lover divorce rates, less rape, less single mothers etc.

Its hard for us to understands since we think its so hard to find the right person on our own. But there is no "right" person in the sense we use it. There is "right" person in terms of pheromons and other chemistry.

Dont get me wrong the issue is very complicated and other social and personal (psychological) factors are in play. What I am talking about is just the "falling in love" part.

Actually why men do not fall in love with their mothers (unless some psychic illness) is that familiy members release pheromones which do "stink" to our brain. We cannot possibly think of familiy member as a sexuall object. (I know about Freud but that is proven to be nonsense).

Arranged marriage is not "unfreedom" and stuff. ON the contrary. The two automatically fall in love without having much choice unless the pheromones are totally wrong.

 

[Rabid]

Arranged marriage must work better than random encounter for the previous reasons and if we look at societies who do have arranged marriage they have much lover divorce rates, less rape, less single mothers etc.

Violence is a concern frequently cited as one of the key problems by Western non-governmental organisations. A recent report by Amnesty International estimated that at least one third of Turkish women are victims of domestic violence in which they are "hit, raped and, in some cases, killed or forced to commit suicide"...

The female employment rate is meanwhile the worst in Europe, exacerbated by female illiteracy and poor education. One in every eight girls is out of school, often pushed into arranged marriages at a young age.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3681494.stm

This is just one example. I am sure there are many more.

Just because women don't get divorced that doesn't mean they don't want one. There are other factors to consider in the divorce rate of different countries; which include the stigma of divorce, womens rights, education and discrimination.

In most marriages in the US today both man and woman have an education and work. The stigma of divorce is all but dead and women have stonger presence in the workplace than ever before. This makes it very easy for women to seek divorce as opposed to earlier decades or countries where women aren't as fortunate to be in such a position.

 

[sneez]

"In most marriages in the US today both man and woman have an education and work. The stigma of divorce is all but dead and women have stonger presence in the workplace than ever before. This makes it very easy for women to seek divorce as opposed to earlier decades or countries where women aren't as fortunate to be in such a position."

Most of the women who get divorced for other them money which is #1 reason cite as very important factor "bad smell" of their husband. Research shows that its a pheromons who make it impossible for women to say with man. Many of that is cause with birth control pills as reaserch shows.

About bbc i would not believe everything you read there. However, to partially agree with you, those countries have the lowest litteracy rates and ppl have their problems. Nontheless, arranged marriage is the best option of a marriage, regardless if some nation thinks that instant sexuall gratification and when i hit 30 i want to get married attitude will do it with the ideal marriage.

Man is one of the 3% mamals who are monogamist. The problem is that man have both mechanisms; those of polygamist mamals and those of monogamist. If a man chooses to use his polygamist mechanism it overrides the monogamistic one and vice versa. Actually research shows that man is monogamist by nature with the chemistry process of love suited for monogamy.

US has by statistic probably the worst divorce rates. I am not going to even go into feminism and stuff which is destroying this society. Famales misunderstanding their nature etc...

sneez

 

[Minorail]

I think so too.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

To keep on topic, all marriages are arranged - I've never seen a spontaneous wedding. So there.

 

[Felixiass]

Marry the one you really love

 

[Sadmemo]

what's the link between arranged marriages and the 'problem' of feminism?

I think you should have answer in your mind already!

 

[Kerrie]

Note from the Admin:

Keep this on topic, or it will be closed. No more discussions of feminism or insulting back and forth.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Now I'll never, ever know.

 

[Evo]

I apologize if this thread has been overdone.

Arranged marriage is practiced in many religions. People within these religions are betrothed to friends of parents, or other children of friends of parents, etc. However, should marriage not be about love? And if betrothed marriage is not about love, then is it morally wrong? Why have so many people ignored love in marriage in order to marry into money or other material ammenities? Can love grow within these marriages?

Throughout history, marriage was mostly arranged, it has only been in recent history that marriage for love became the norm, although it's more common in westernized cultures.

 

[Felixiass]

I think love comes from friendship, it grows through closeness, sympathy.
My 'yes' is there to answer justinius's question, love still can always grow within those marriages.
'Matched' or 'Un-matched' is only the reason which s/he uses to explain for the love that has not grown much enough or that it hasn't been well recognized or especially when the desire from both has been completely out.
Marrying someone you don't love might bring you unhappiness at first, but gradually you sure can also find a lot of things you like from your behalf. We are not weeds or stones and that's why.

 

[sneez]

Well "love" we all dream about is not happening but only with release of oxytocin which in turn by other hormones releases dopamine. Theat produces sort of "opium" in the brain which make us feel good... Ever wonder why first time in love one feels almost like "high" ? Or why the saying why ones in love are not in this world?

This state of love is very stressfull for the body. Body does not want to be in stress by its design. The longest researches could find this hormones is 28 monts. THats the only longest case. Usually love dissipates very quickly for the reason of it being a stress for body which has a purpose of procreating!

Thats why "love" disaapears after a while. There is however a stage called attachement. This stage is for couples who has been together beyond the stage of "sexual desire", ie. love. This stages creates bonds through release of other hormones but this stage is formed even during initial "animalistic" love stage. Its created by oxytocin.

This bond is also found in mothers who gave birth. Right after the baby "comes out" the brain releases oxytocin in the baby's brain and in the mothers brain. Thats why women gets attached to a baby more than a man generally and that's by nature the function of a women is to rise children.

Ever wondered why man when in love becomes less "manly". Its due to descrease of testosteron in the body. Which is a nature's way of ensuring the protection of female when having child. THis way the man is not going to go fight someone or take risks which would lead to death of famele and the baby.

NOTE for those who have some problems with their preconceived ideas of love. I am desrcibing only the most basic chemistry on our "animal" level. Of cause there is more to it when we apply social environment and psychology of individual.

sneez

 

[Sadmemo]

Well, very nice!

But after I go through the whole thread for a while, I think your marvelous thread should be in biology forum instead.

Sometimes arranged marriage can 'damage' both's feelings but if that is the way for things to move on better, something should be done and accepted.
Good luck! Be happy!

 

[sneez]

Hmm that's very interesting suggestion. Let me ask you how much is/is not philosophy linked with sciences? I think it is becoming less and less clear cut with the new theories derived from empirical sciences.

It just might be that we humans take more time accept things socially than mentally. Meaning we like to think of love as something esotherical/something of its own, someone special waithing for us and that sort of stuff. But it just might be that is other dimension of our psychology which need this kind of stuff for our humanity to survive.

maybe..

sneez

 

[russ_watters]

Arranged marriage is the only "correct" marriage as confirmed by science as far as i know. Love does not exists in the meaning of some esotheric something somewhere. There is no "someone special" waiting for anybody. Its all chemistry and its proven that actually dating and living together does damage the system its setup for humans.

Didn't you just contradict yourself? If its all chemistry, then how can pre-arranged marriages be "correct"? If chemistry determines whether I'll fall in love, then arranged marriages are un-natural.

 

[sneez]

you have to read what i posted correctly. The chemistry is setup the way that arranged marriage utilizes that system the best.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

"Arranged marriage is the only "correct" marriage as confirmed by science as far as i know."

Which branch of science is this again? I'm rusty and need to read up on it.

 

[sneez]

sure let me give it to you:

[PLAIN]http://www.oxytocin.org/[/URL]
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4377 [/URL]
[PLAIN] [PLAIN]http://www.mcmanweb.com/love_lust.htm [/URL]
http://www.ez2shopmall.com/articles/personals7.html [/URL]
[PLAIN] http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=2424049 [/URL]
There are many more articles I've read but to start with you can read these...

sneez

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Thanks for links. I didn't read much of them; I just searched for the words 'arranged' and 'marriage'. I found only the Economist to touch on a vaguely related idea which is that possible marriage partners may be screened for genetic disadvantages. It does not seem to suggest that anyone other than the would-be spouse would make the decision. This is not what is usually meant by arranged marriage, in which the match is made by some third person, usually parents or guardians. If by 'arranged' you mean planned in some way, then see my earlier post about the lack of sponteneous weddings. Like I said, I only scanned them, so maybe you can point out to be the relevant bits about arranged marriage being confirmed by science as correct, or bung me some more links to search through.

 

[sneez]

well if you read them how "love" works and what it is for a human body in terms of changes etc you will see that arranged marriage is what is meant (as far as science is concerned as of right now) for humans to have.

There are many types of arranged marriage. But i assumed to be a marriage without prior involvement of two subjects on any than social level.

Actaully if you read it you will learn what is this www.nomarriage.com [/URL] website about and you will see directly how much true this stuff is.

sneez

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

well if you read them how "love" works and what it is for a human body in terms of changes etc you will see that arranged marriage is what is meant (as far as science is concerned as of right now) for humans to have.

There are many types of arranged marriage. But i assumed to be a marriage without prior involvement of two subjects on any than social level.

Actaully if you read it you will learn what is this www.nomarriage.com [/URL] website about and you will see directly how much true this stuff is.

sneez[/QUOTE]
Mmmm, I'm not getting that from any of those links. Even if you reject entirely the idea of love, there are still many other selfish reasons for you personally to choose your spouse. Unless these too are scientifically debunked, I don't see how you can infer that arranged marriage is scientifically deemed beneficial.

 

[Kerrie]

Mmmm, I'm not getting that from any of those links. Even if you reject entirely the idea of love, there are still many other selfish reasons for you personally to choose your spouse. Unless these too are scientifically debunked, I don't see how you can infer that arranged marriage is scientifically deemed beneficial.

I agree with this too. Making the statement that "arranged marriages are deemed scientifically beneficial" sounds like a hardcore opinion rather then scientific fact. Especially when the whole concept of arranged marriages stem from a handful of cultures of the many on this earth.

 

[learningphysics]

Thats why arranged marriage partners have NO choice but to fall in love! Its chemistry. The hormones get released and that's it. It math ! there is no way out of it.

Are you saying that if we take any man and woman that have not previously fallen in love...put them together...they are guaranteed to fall in love??

I really don't understand this. Seems like you're saying the first time a male actually sees a female he'll fall in love with her?

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Pretty much sums me up.

 

[sneez]

well guys you don't seem to be readin any of the post i posted. You just feeling insecure about your preconceived ides of love. Its statistically proven that "love" is what most of the ppl "believe" in and it seems that any of you are open minded to see through this.

So explain to me where do you DO NOT see the connection of the chemistry i described and the articles and arranged marriages. Give me argument to work with rather than blindly rejecting it without supporting your statements.

Its very clear that arranged marriage is the ONLY CORRECT way to setup a family. Maybe if you come up with your own research to prove me wrong that would help me a lot but all the articles i found support my view.

sneez

 

[learningphysics]

sneez,

I did not mean to upset or offend. You said in your post that a man and woman in an arranged marriage have no choice but to fall in love. You said that this was due to chemistry involved.

How exactly does this chemical reaction take place? Does it happen when a man and woman live together? I know you're probably not saying that any man and woman in proximity to each other fall in love... so I'm wondering what the criteria are for the chemical reaction to take place. Time spend together?

It seems like you're just throwing out any criteria like compatibility... physical attractiveness and saying that any man can fall in love with any woman. If this is really the case then are parents wasting time by trying to match their children with appropriate partners, when in fact any other partner would do?

 

[sneez]

in no sense i felt offended but your next question proves to me you did not read or missed important point in my post. I stressed very much the other factors involved in "love" and marriage that they exists. However, i was trying portray how our "animal" self works and how we feel about love versus how we perceive love. I in no sense claimed that my post are the ultimate guide to "love". My post were merelly make you guys think of the reality we experience and what science says about it and you will see how much the scientists can preditct based on the knowledge of chemistry involved. IF you read my post or the articles you will see how our grand father were correct in arranging marriages and not letting ppl "freely" falling in "love" left and right. Love is a state of stress for a body and cannot sustain it more than 2 years. I bet we all can confirm that with experience! "Love" (sexual desire which our society transaltes it into) is nothing than a drive to procreate, which we know almost everything about in terms of chemistry.

Read my post and raise arguments rather than disagreements to move this discussion forward rather than stagnate here.

Im not going to repeat the posts again. I am confident i answered your objection in my previous post and if i did not feel free to read those articles i posted links to. If still there is confusion ill be more than happy explain.

regards sneez

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Read my post and raise arguments rather than disagreements to move this discussion forward rather than stagnate here.

What if our arguments disagree with yours? Are we not allowed to post them?
People may be having difficulty pointing out why there is no connection between chemistry and arranged marriage, and why due to chemsitry and man and women (what about man and man, or woman and woman) will inevitably fall in love, because it is not clear where you think these connections are. The links you posted did indeed describe a connection between love and chemistry, but they did not mention the benefit of arranged marriage. As you too have not actually explained how arranged marriage is scientifically proven to be beneficial, it is rather difficult for someone to comment on this connection - they can only point out the lack of connection in your argument. You cannot seriously propose the existence of something, refuse to explain it, and then challenge people to disprove it. Can you, for instance, disprove the existence of a humpfloogle? I made it up, but you have no basis to debunk it for you know nothing about it.
You have to present a reason why love's chemical nature requires arranged marriage, rather than just say that is does. Only then is there a basis for argument. Likewise you need to explain why you think two people of opposite sex will, if cohabiting, inevitably fall in love rather than, say, hate each other's guts every day.
There is also a difference between people not reading your posts, not understanding them, and understanding them but being apathetic.

 

[sneez]

Absolutelly I am just arguing from the perspective of those articles so anyone is free to post any opinion one wants but rather than claim "i disagree" it would be easier to say "why" also so we can have argument.

SO to reiterate my point:(im not going to go into chemistry agains since we car read it in those articles, there are more i read recently about women and their brain and stuff but that's for later)

So it seems that arranged marriage has its value because the two will "have to" fall in love since its their first time for them as far as physical contact. DUring orgasm necessary chemistry happens which will give them the feeling of love. THere are other 2 stages (which i talked about ) which are perfectly suited for arranged marriage as oppose to random "sex" till the age of 30 and then get married to whomever one goes out the last. THose stages are unnecessary if our nature would be doing the later.

Oppose to "dating" scheme because the feeling of love is not designed to yield the same results over and over for FUN! It is seriously purposfully developed to ensure procreation. The "love" we get from dating is a joke to pursue since it does not exist. Its just a notion we fool ourselves with. The articles prove that love is not everlasting neither is it some esotheric thing that pervades universe. ITs very simple chemistry designed for a purpose. On our animalistic level our body does not play jokes on us as we might think. The chemisty works best when reinfoced on one person as the articles show.

That does not ensure sucessfull marriage. There are many other factors in it but from chemistry perspective we are monogamist creatures who have a choice to become polygamist if they want but in general monogamist we are according to science. Hence the "dating" and stuff is just not us by desing.

i hope i put it better in perspective...

sneez

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

So it seems that arranged marriage has its value because the two will "have to" fall in love since its their first time for them as far as physical contact.

Why is this special to arranged marriage? You have yet to clarify the following:
- why, due to the chemical nature of love, is it inevitable that two people will fall in love if they live together? Just because something CAN happen, doesn't mean it will.
- why, if living together is all that is required, do the couple have to be married?
- why, if they are to be married, is arranged marriage beneficial if physical contact is the only requirement?
- if physical contact is necessary (in which case, why do I love Monica Bellucci?), why is cohabitation the only way to do this? Most people fall in love, then cohabit, well enough without having people choose with whom they do so.
A 'first time' for physical contact does not necessitate cohabitation, nor marriage, nor arranged marriage. Nor do any of those necessitate love. At least, not from the facts, rather than your own opinions, with which you have presented us.

During orgasm necessary chemistry happens which will give them the feeling of love.

Clean your mouth out with soap and water. None of your sleazy sex talk here.

THere are other 2 stages (which i talked about ) which are perfectly suited for arranged marriage as oppose to random "sex" till the age of 30 and then get married to whomever one goes out the last.

Are those the only options? How about having a meaningful relationship with someone important to you? And you underestimate the greatness of random sex.

Oppose to "dating" scheme because the feeling of love is not designed to yield the same results over and over for FUN!

Most intelligent animals have courting rituals. Ours are just... not as good. Could you imagine two vultures courting by pecking together at carrion? Yuck!

The "love" we get from dating is a joke to pursue since it does not exist.

On the contrary, even without the (possible) illusion of love, courtship is still a necessary phase of choosing the right partner - i.e. the one who's traits you wish your progeny to inherit. Dating is very Darwinian.

The articles prove that love is not everlasting neither is it some esotheric thing that pervades universe.

The articles prove nothing. It is theory.

There are many other factors in it but from chemistry perspective we are monogamist creatures who have a choice to become polygamist if they want but in general monogamist we are according to science.

I didn't see anything in those links that suggested 'chemical love' as leading naturally to monogamy, and I would distrust an article that did so as biased selection of facts. Spreading the genes apart as far and wide as possible is another tactic to preserve the bloodline.

i hope i put it better in perspective...

Not really. There are some major leaps of reasoning in your argument. You could address these in more depth.

 

[sneez]

why, due to the chemical nature of love, is it inevitable that two people will fall in love if they live together? Just because something CAN happen, doesn't mean it will.

There is almost 100% certanty it will since its math.

why, if living together is all that is required, do the couple have to be married?

Living together is fine, given that you do not change partners during or too often to put your chemistry in imbalance.
But if you do not plan on it than get married i guess. Note that arranged marriage as i use it is not imposed marriage neither against someones will. Arranged means that no dating before hand took place.

- if physical contact is necessary (in which case, why do I love Monica Bellucci?), why is cohabitation the only way to do this? Most people fall in love, then cohabit, well enough without having people choose with whom they do so.

Liking and releasing oxytocin is different. There are look also but you cannot fall in love with that person just by looking at him/her. IF i remove the image from you, you will forget about her very quickly or at least in the sense of "love".

As i explained earlier falling in love is not for phun at our animalistic level. ITs highly stressfull situation for body and it cannot sustain it for long time. Why i suggested arranged marriage is the fact that it utilizes the system of chemistry the best. Falling in and out of love will demage the balance and one of the articles even mentions this.

Clean your mouth out with soap and water. None of your sleazy sex talk here.

Hmm i don't know what's the problem. DUring orgasm you brain releases oxytocin which in turn produces dopamin which makes you feel good. No matter which way you reach the orgasm. HOwever, the oxytocin when there is partner is associated with that partner in your brain. (ALso that's why masturbation can be addictive, it association process. )

Are those the only options? How about having a meaningful relationship with someone important to you? And you underestimate the greatness of random sex.

Im not forcing you to stop having as much sex as you want. I am saying that we are not designed for that. Read again what happnes during sex in your brain and you will see you can just take an injection with the right substance and have feel the same effect. Research by Dan Ariely (MIT Sloan School of Management) and Hans Breiter (Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston), published in the November 2001 issue of the journal Neuron, indicates that in men, female beauty stimulates the same pleasure centers of the brain as those stimulated by food and cocaine. Can you see wha i see ?


Meaningfull relationship comes through chemistry. IF on "animal" level of pheromones etc the two are not compatible there will never be a relationship. NOte alse i never got into psychology of relationship, I am talking purelly about "love".

Most intelligent animals have courting rituals. Ours are just... not as good. Could you imagine two vultures courting by pecking together at carrion? Yuck!

97% of animals are incapable of monogamist relationship. WHat is your point? Human goes into 3%.

On the contrary, even without the (possible) illusion of love, courtship is still a necessary phase of choosing the right partner - i.e. the one who's traits you wish your progeny to inherit. Dating is very Darwinian.

NO on animalistic level is about pheromones/testosteron/etc. This is very clearly covered in the articles. The behaviou of male changes immediatelly when close to women he is attracted. IF you talk about that its due to testosteron which gives him the drive. Aftere that its psychology but I am not even going to go there. Note alse that for man and women there are different criteria to select partner but on the chemistry level we are very similar. Again I am not taking dating from you. SO stop beging defensive of it.

The articles prove nothing. It is theory.

What is not a theory? The articles clearly document research that proves that love is just chemistry.

I didn't see anything in those links that suggested 'chemical love' as leading naturally to monogamy, and I would distrust an article that did so as biased selection of facts. Spreading the genes apart as far and wide as possible is another tactic to preserve the bloodline.

Read again its explicitly stated there.

Not really. There are some major leaps of reasoning in your argument. You could address these in more depth.

Well there are more than 100 pages in those articles. I know its a lot to read but if you are interested ..., it will give you the depth i think for sure. I can post even more links if you need.

sneez

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

There is almost 100% certanty it will since its math.

You have to validate this statement. Neutron decay is pure weak nuclear interaction, but that doesn't mean every neutron in my body is going to spontaneously decay. Likewise simply because love is purely chemistry, does not make it inevitable. By your reasoning, every arranged marriage is a loving marriage. This is certainly not true.

Living together is fine, given that you do not change partners during or too often to put your chemistry in imbalance.

An explanation of this would be cool too. Are you saying falling in love can adversely effect your chemistry? This would be odd since falling in love, you say, is a result of chemistry.

Arranged means that no dating before hand took place.

Ah. So you can meet the person, but not flirt?

Liking and releasing oxytocin is different. There are look also but you cannot fall in love with that person just by looking at him/her. IF i remove the image from you, you will forget about her very quickly or at least in the sense of "love".

I was kidding.

Why i suggested arranged marriage is the fact that it utilizes the system of chemistry the best. Falling in and out of love will demage the balance and one of the articles even mentions this.

Again, arranged marriage is not required. If two people inevitably fall in love regardless of who the other person is, it may as well be someone of their own choosing. Also, how can someone fall out of love if physical contact makes love inevitable. How, for instance, am I more likely to fall out of love with my girlfriend whom I loved before I lived with than someone who lives with a man or woman they have not previously met? This is a chemical argument for monogamy, yes, but not arranged marriage, and it is not the only consideration to take when comparing monogamy to polygamy. It has long been known that male sex drive is a likely candidate for their shorter life expectancy, but it is also known that the more females a male impregnates, the safer his bloodline is.

Hmm i don't know what's the problem. DUring orgasm you brain releases oxytocin which in turn produces dopamin which makes you feel good.

So... for a happy marriage, smoke crack!

Im not forcing you to stop having as much sex as you want. I am saying that we are not designed for that.

My sex drive begs to differ. We may not be designed in one aspect, but we may be in others. If you subscribe to evolution, rather than intelligent design, there is no reason why two functions of the human body have to be complimentary.

Research by Dan Ariely (MIT Sloan School of Management) and Hans Breiter (Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston), published in the November 2001 issue of the journal Neuron, indicates that in men, female beauty stimulates the same pleasure centers of the brain as those stimulated by food and cocaine. Can you see wha i see ?

Oh, I believe you. But sex is free. And legal. And no matter how much coke you snort, you will not have a baby. I'm not sure of the relevance of this.

Meaningfull relationship comes through chemistry.

A meaningful relationship is a sociological issue. I don't think chemistry is designed for 'meaningful' relationships, just successful ones. Polygamy, again, is a successful trait, in that it aids survival (to an extent - you don't want one male banging every female because two generations later everyone will have six toes on one foot). Actually I don't even know what a 'meaningful' relationship is. Forget I said it.

97% of animals are incapable of monogamist relationship. WHat is your point? Human goes into 3%.

99.9999999999999999% of animals are incapable writing a best-selling novel too. This does not make me an author.

The behaviou of male changes immediatelly when close to women he is attracted. IF you talk about that its due to testosteron which gives him the drive. Aftere that its psychology but I am not even going to go there.

Precisely - there are other considerations. Again, just because something CAN happen, does not mean it WILL. And also, just because one chemical impulse makes one action desirable, it does not another will not override it. Furthermore, are you saying peacock's use psychology? I would suspect it is no less physical than testosterone. I'm not defending dating, I'm explaining what it's for and why it is not rendered useless or hazardous by your view on love. It has nothing necessarily to do with love. It's a kind of genetic screening really. Your daughter will be more likely to reproduce if she has blond hair and big boobs. Therefore you want to check to hair colour and boob size of your prospective spouse. (That's two examples, to some men the most important two.)

What is not a theory? The articles clearly document research that proves that love is just chemistry.

No - it suggests, based on current thinking and latest evidence. It is not a proof, just a way forward.

 

[NoGeniusJustSensible]

OK on this issue... arranged marriages do not neccessarily mean a person is betrothed to someone. It is a marriage planned yes, by others, and MAY NOT be consented to by the bride/groom. though this is not much in practice anymore, as both individuals usually consent to marriage. My parents had an arranged marriage. They did not chose each other, but agreed to marry after their parents had paired them up. They do not love each other less than people who may have had a "love marriage", infact i could say they love each other more than people who've had "love marriages".
So, it doesn't make arranged marriages inhuman or immoral, it could be a boon, but then again it could be a curse as well.
It depends on the situation really.
Whereas being betrothed to someone is just sad... cos then their parents havn't consulted the person concerned and that could lead to a lot of parent-child issues...

 

[Nomy-the wanderer]

I've an opinion, when i was a teenager i thought that this is the best way to elad a miserable life, but after a second thought, i can't be satisfied if soemthing like that happened to me...I can't accept it and that's it.

But arranged marriage in a community is the result of a culture, a way of growing some certain concepts, so i think the families choose their kids partners depending on the family's wealth, social position, environment, stuff liek that..

It happens that both of the partners if accepting such a marriage, will find many common things due to the similar conditions they were brought ion, acceptance will make them try to make it work...

And there r many cases, because this acceptance really made it work and really are in love with each other now...

But since this is not my culture nor my family's..I was brought into this world, knowing that it's not enough to accept what my folks say or what my teahcer's say, i knew i have to try and choose for myself...

I think it's like that..

 

[Antiphon]

In the West, arranged marriages were a way of keeping family wealth
concentrated. Wealthy people married other wealthy or influential families.

There was a time when people still recognized that material things and money
meant a whole lot to the next generation's ability to survive. Today love and
attraction are considered more important by many. Perhaps this is because the
difficulty of surviving is much lower than in earlier times.

 

[physics4ever]

Hi everyone,

I just happened to see this thread and thought I would comment because my parents had an arranged marriage. In our community, the boy, along with his family, goes and meets the girl and her family. The families talk to each other about the prospective marriage, while the boy and the girl talk in private. Both of them are under no obligations to marry and can opt out of it anytime. My mother agreed to marry my father only after going out on a few 'dates' with him, and exchanging a LOT of letters. So it is like dating, only the courtship is shorter. There is usually a year's gap between the engagement and the marriage, so that the boy and girl get to know each other.

In India, the girl usually lives with the boy and his family after she gets married. So it is absolutely essential that she gets along with the boy's family, which is why the two families interact so much before the marriage.

My parents are pretty happy in their marriage. My mother, however tells me she may have thought twice about marrying my father if she had known him longer. But I don't think this is because they had an arranged marriage, but because you really get to know your partner only after marriage.

Having said all this, I would not dream of going in for an arranged marriage. I guess this is because of the rapidly changing Indian culture.

Sunayana.

 

[Astronuc]

My parents are pretty happy in their marriage. My mother, however tells me she may have thought twice about marrying my father if she had known him longer. But I don't think this is because they had an arranged marriage, but because you really get to know your partner only after marriage.

I know several marriages where this is the case, i.e. one of the partners has doubts about the other, and these marriages were not arranged, but simply happened when both partners where much younger.

I know a several divorced people who tell me that had they known more about the person to whom they were married (and the marriage was not arranged), then they would not have married that person. In some cases, the couples divorce after 20-30+ years of marriage.

 

[selfAdjoint]

I know several marriages where this is the case, i.e. one of the partners has doubts about the other, and these marriages were not arranged, but simply happened when both partners where much younger.

I know a several divorced people who tell me that had they known more about the person to whom they were married (and the marriage was not arranged), then they would not have married that person. In some cases, the couples divorce after 20-30+ years of marriage.

But after 20 or 30 years of marriage, the person you have come to know is no longer the person you married. The experiences of the marriage themselves have changed both partners, so if they no longer recognize each other as the person they married it's not surprising. On the other hand having those experiences together will sometimes weld two disparate personalities in a common bond they could not have visualized when young.

 

[Jarvis Bull Dawg]

Let me tell you something from my own experience. Arranged marriages (on average) outlast any 'love' or pre-marital sexual relation (and then marriage). Arranged marriages are not all that you see on CNN. These days most families do ask consult the going-to-be bride or groom. So its not as blind as it used to be. I do have to admit that men do have an upper hand because they get most of the choice, even if its 'yes', 'no', and 'show me the next one'.

My friend's of Indian origin, so I have some idea how it goes around.

 

[Dayle Record]

I just read a long, harrowing article in the New York Times, regarding fistulas in women that give birth at a very early age, whose babies die, and the women become infected and spend years incontinent with both urine and fecal matter. These marriages are arranged and the girls are married off at age 11-12 frequently before the onset of menses, and then certainly after the onset of menses. This is an area where we aren't giving out condoms any more, I guess people don't realize that arranged marriage is often the giving of children to adults for sex. It is also forgotten that in almost direct proportion to the ignorance and poverty of the society, is the low age of girls given in marriage, it is always about power and economics, and basically it is abandonment. The tales in this article are absolutely harrowing, I think I will link it.
<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/28/international/africa/28africa.html?hp&ex=1127880000&en=fc2820b1b20c4bbb&ei=5094&partner=homepage>

There it is. This article is not for the faint of heart, and it shows the results of the lower end of the spectrum of arranged marriage.