Atmosphere's Rotation: Is Earth's Speed the Same?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the rotation of the Earth and its atmosphere, specifically questioning whether the speed of the atmosphere's rotation matches that of the Earth's rotation. It also explores the mechanics of jumping vertically and landing in the same spot, considering factors like momentum and atmospheric movement.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the Earth and atmosphere do not rotate at the same speed, with calm air moving similarly to the Earth's surface but differing due to density.
  • Others argue that when jumping vertically, individuals do not land in the exact same spot due to slight variations in jump execution and altitude.
  • One participant mentions the Coriolis effect and its implications, noting that it is often misunderstood in relation to toilet flushing.
  • Another participant highlights the differences in travel time when flying East versus West, attributing this to jet streams rather than the Earth's rotation.
  • Some participants emphasize that conservation of momentum explains why a person lands in the same spot after jumping, as they retain the same eastward momentum as the Earth.
  • There is a claim that wind is not a result of the Earth moving through the atmosphere, suggesting a different understanding of atmospheric dynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the relationship between the Earth's rotation and atmospheric movement, as well as the factors influencing travel times in aviation. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on several points raised.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding assumptions about atmospheric dynamics, the effects of momentum during jumping, and the influence of jet streams on travel times, which are not fully explored or agreed upon.

Epic_Sarthak
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I was thinking about the rotation of Earth when I came across to know that the atmosphere moves as the Earth rotates. They move as the same body. But then a question came into my mind. Is the speed of the rotation of the atmosphere same as that of the Earth. And when we jump, why do we fall on the same location from which we jump, that is jump vertically ?
 
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Let me try this explanation.

The Earth and the atmosphere do not rotate at the same speed. At ground level calm, static air might move close to the same speed as the Earth, but because of the differences in density the Earth moves through the atmosphere not with it. Without this fact there would be no wind.

Part two.

When we jump vertically we do not land in exactly the same place each time. We land either slighty ahead, behind, or too one side of our initial launch point. Due to the fact that we gain very little alttitude in a vertical leap, (and do not leap exactly vertical) there is just very little noticable difference in our landing spot.
 
Naty1 said:
On the other hand some related effects are larger than might be expected with just superficialthought:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect#Draining_in_bathtubs_and_toilets

You can also experience rotational effects when traveling from East to West versus West to East via airplane: travel time in the former direction takes longer than the latter.

Just to clarify, the Coriolis effect is not responsible for the direction a toilet flushes. That's a myth spread by people who care more about being interesting than being accurate.
 
Epic_Sarthak said:
I was thinking about the rotation of Earth when I came across to know that the atmosphere moves as the Earth rotates. They move as the same body. But then a question came into my mind. Is the speed of the rotation of the atmosphere same as that of the Earth. And when we jump, why do we fall on the same location from which we jump, that is jump vertically ?


Overall, the atmosphere moves with the Earth's rotation. Because air is a fluid it can have currents and layers and all the different properties that it has.

As for jumping, we fall to the same spot because we are also moving with the Earth's rotation. Because of the size of the Earth the curvature on our scale is very very small, so the Earth doesn't "fall" away underneath us while we are in the air.
 
Naty1 said:
You can also experience rotational effects when traveling from East to West versus West to East via airplane: travel time in the former direction takes longer than the latter.

I don't really see how this is correct. Are you sure it doesn't have something to do with the jet streams?
 
Drakkith said:
I don't really see how this is correct. Are you sure it doesn't have something to do with the jet streams?

It's true that travel times vary substantially depending on direction, but it is 100% to do with the jet streams.
 
cjl said:
It's true that travel times vary substantially depending on direction, but it is 100% to do with the jet streams.

Yeah, that's what I thought. The wiki article on jet streams shows them all traveling in a west to east direction.
 
KingNothing said:
Just to clarify, the Coriolis effect is not responsible for the direction a toilet flushes. That's a myth spread by people who care more about being interesting than being accurate.
Or by people with very large toilets.
 
  • #10
The wind is NOT a result of the Earth "traveling through the atmosphere."
 
  • #11
Epic_Sarthak said:
I was thinking about the rotation of Earth when I came across to know that the atmosphere moves as the Earth rotates. They move as the same body. But then a question came into my mind. Is the speed of the rotation of the atmosphere same as that of the Earth. And when we jump, why do we fall on the same location from which we jump, that is jump vertically ?

Short answer- conservation of momentum. While we are standing on the Earth we have the same momentum as the Earth itself- we are moving east as fast as it is. When we jump, we still have that momentum and are still moving to the east as fast as the Earth is.
 

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