ATP Isolation, Injection, Issues.

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers around the feasibility and implications of direct ATP injection into the body. It confirms that ATP can be isolated and concentrated, but raises concerns about its stability and transport. ATP is not effectively transported in the bloodstream due to cell membrane impermeability, and injecting it could lead to significant health risks, including phosphate toxicity and renal failure. The potential effects of localized high ATP levels in various tissues, such as the brain and heart, could result in overstimulation of cells, potentially causing seizures or other severe reactions. The conversation also touches on the rapid breakdown of ATP by extracellular enzymes, emphasizing its role as a signaling molecule and the importance of maintaining balance to prevent receptor desensitization. Overall, while ATP has intriguing applications, its direct use in injections poses serious challenges and risks.
Kglocc
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Bear with me if you notice any botched ideas in my writing, I'm working on it.
Initially I was wondering about direct injection of ATP. But I ran into a roadblock...
First - Is it possible to isolate ATP from a source and make a high concentration ATP solution or even pure ATP? (extraction method, solvents, etc.) YES http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19009538
Second - With this ATP what are the effects of a direct injection into tissues or from intravenous drip or injection.

My question is; what would happen if an excess amount of ATP were suddenly present locally in the brain, heart, abdomen, or muscle?

Also, how would ATP in an IV affect you?

I do not think (but please check me if I am wrong) that ATP is transported in the blood plazma. I do not know if ATP is transported between cells at all or just intracellularly, it makes sense that it would require vesicle transport. Vesicle transport makes sense because - EDITED -
ATP is not stable enough to be transported, and synthesis and consumption are closely linked.

"...cell membranes are [generally] impermeable to ATP..," http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=n134561068312v36&size=largest
Basically injecting pure ATP would not affect the interior of cells, since the vast majority would lose the potential energy stored in the phosphate bond before it reached a suitable target site to activate something. My original question is null. However, an upgraded version of my question - what happens if extremely high levels of ATP were imposed upon a normal cell?
 
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Biology news on Phys.org
ATP supplements has no beneficial effect in the human body.

Conclusion
These findings indicated no improvements in the measured variables as a result of ingesting this nutritional supplement. Future studies should examine whether chronic supplementation or a loading period is necessary to observe any ergogenic effects of this supplement.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253504/

You might also be interested in the information here. http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/creatine.html
 
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Kglocc said:
First - Is it possible to isolate ATP from a source and make a high concentration ATP solution or even pure ATP? (extraction method, solvents, etc.) YES http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19009538

How complicated- I can buy 25g for $150.

http://www.fishersci.com/wps/portal/ITEMDETAIL?ru=http://prodwcsserver:9060/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/FisherItemDisplay&catalogId=29104&productId=2466816&parentProductId=4139421&langId=-1&distype=0&fromCat= [Ljava.lang.String;@18c9b9f&catCode=RE_SC&brCategoryId=null&highlightProductsItemsFlag=Y&fromSearch=Y&fromProductCatalogPage=Y&crossRefPartNo=null&crossRefData=null

I use about 50nM ATP to stimulate intracellular calcium release via purigenic receptors.

Kglocc said:
Second - With this ATP what are the effects of a direct injection into tissues or from intravenous drip or injection.

My question is; what would happen if an excess amount of ATP were suddenly present locally in the brain, heart, abdomen, or muscle?

Also, how would ATP in an IV affect you?

I would not inject or breathe in ATP- as you can see, it is a very potent stimulator and could cause major health problems.
 
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Andy Resnick said:
How complicated- I can buy 25g for $150.

I use about 50nM ATP to stimulate intracellular calcium release via purigenic receptors.

I would not inject or breathe in ATP- as you can see, it is a very potent stimulator and could cause major health problems.

Ah thank you. If their selling it in a bottle it must be stable.
It's much easier to search for something once you know what it is you're searching for - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WX5-45N45PB-2&_user=10&_coverDate=08%2F31%2F1996&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1451298262&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=caf26ef2c4bc23457dd7b2ba5e9a59f8&searchtype=a
 
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Kglocc said:
Bear with me if you notice any botched ideas in my writing, I'm working on it.
Initially I was wondering about direct injection of ATP. But I ran into a roadblock...
First - Is it possible to isolate ATP from a source and make a high concentration ATP solution or even pure ATP? (extraction method, solvents, etc.) YES http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19009538
Second - With this ATP what are the effects of a direct injection into tissues or from intravenous drip or injection.

My question is; what would happen if an excess amount of ATP were suddenly present locally in the brain, heart, abdomen, or muscle?

Also, how would ATP in an IV affect you?

I do not think (but please check me if I am wrong) that ATP is transported in the blood plazma. I do not know if ATP is transported between cells at all or just intracellularly, it makes sense that it would require vesicle transport. Vesicle transport makes sense because -


EDITED -
ATP is not stable enough to be transported, and synthesis and consumption are closely linked.

"...cell membranes are [generally] impermeable to ATP..," http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=n134561068312v36&size=largest
Basically injecting pure ATP would not affect the interior of cells, since the vast majority would lose the potential energy stored in the phosphate bond before it reached a suitable target site to activate something. My original question is null. However, an upgraded version of my question - what happens if extremely high levels of ATP were imposed upon a normal cell?


I would say it would depend on the cell type and origin. If you inject a large concentration of ATP into an animal (ignoring volume issues) that animal would probably die from phosphate toxicity as the phosphates are fairly alkali. Cell membranes are effectively impermeable to ATP for the simple reason that "you don't want a hole in your gas tank". Adenosine itself is large let alone the additional 3 phosphates. My guess is that the excess osmolarity would be filtered by the kidney which would suck all of the water out of your body which would, necessarily, be followed by NaCl and all the other electrolytes, and you'd end up in renal failure with metabolic alkalosis.
 
Of course, as you pointed out with your link, another compartment would be intrathecal. In THAT case you would over stimulate the neurons and the animal would die rapidly of seizures.
 
My interest is piqued by WHY you are interested in this question. If you are interested in the energy aspect of it say to increase human performance then the most direct way would be to increase the number of mitochondria (which synthesize ATP in your cells). One way to do this is aerobic exercise. Another,

"http://ajpcell.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/292/5/C1599"

"We report that supraphysiological concentrations of pyruvate increase mitochondrial mass and functionality as determined by a comprehensive array of mitochondrial measures. "
 
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jmcanoy1860 said:
I would say it would depend on the cell type and origin.
"you don't want a hole in your gas tank".
excess osmolarity would be filtered by the kidney which would suck all of the water out of your body which would, necessarily, be followed by NaCl and all the other electrolytes, and you'd end up in renal failure with metabolic alkalosis.

jmcanoy1860 said:
over stimulate the neurons and the animal would die rapidly of seizures.

Excellent, thank you for the responses.
My interest in the topic is general. I know of adrenaline injections, somehow went laterally with that and started thinking about ATP injections, and then decided to follow through and find answers to my questions. As usual, found a couple answers and opened the door to a hundred more. to jmcanoy - thanks for the link, interesting stuff.
 
ATP is 'eaten' at an incredible rate by extracellular enzymes. Experiments I did some years ago astounded me how quickly large volumes of ATP were rapidly converted to adenosine and the di and momnophosphates (as well as inosine). There are a large number of enzymes that hydrolyse ATP and the breakdown products. Many of the enzymes are specific to adenine nucleotides and many others non-specifically chew up ATP. ATP is a potent extracellular signalling molecule - and like all such molecules must be rapidly broken down to prevent receptor desensitization and a loss of stimus.

There are a whole raft of cellular receptors for ATP and its analogs - purinergic receptors - linked to many different physiological processes. There isn't a cell I've come across that doesn't have some purinergic response!
 

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