Basic questions about E=mc^2 energy conversion

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Tldrknhndsm
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Energy Matter
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conversion of energy to matter, particularly in the context of particle physics and the implications of Einstein's mass-energy equivalence, represented by the equation E=mc². Participants explore the conditions under which this conversion occurs, the understanding of the process, and the theoretical frameworks that describe it.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how and where energy is converted to matter and whether this process is well understood or purely theoretical.
  • One participant notes that the relativistic energy-momentum equations, including E=mc², underpin high-energy particle dynamics, including creation and decay processes.
  • Another participant emphasizes that energy is always associated with fields and cannot exist independently, suggesting that energy conversion involves changes between fields rather than a simple transformation into matter.
  • Several participants discuss the concept of energy as "stuff" and caution against this view, arguing it leads to misunderstandings.
  • One participant asserts that energy is converted to matter during particle creation and that the process is well understood within the framework of the standard model of particle physics.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that definitions of "energy" and "matter" are crucial, suggesting that energy could be seen as massless fields and matter as fields with rest mass.
  • There is a discussion about the role of the Higgs field, with some arguing that rest energy is produced by interactions with the Higgs field rather than being a prerequisite for such interactions.
  • Participants express differing views on whether energy can be converted to matter or if energy can only be converted to energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the conversion of energy to matter, the role of the Higgs field, and the definitions of energy and matter. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus on the interpretations or implications of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of definitions and the nuances in understanding energy and matter, indicating that assumptions about these concepts may vary significantly among contributors.

Tldrknhndsm
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
In nature how and where is energy converted to matter, where do the necessary conditions exist, is the process well understood, pure theory, or not understood at all?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The relativistic energy-momentum equations, of which ##E= mc^2## is a special case, form the basis of all high energy particle collisions and dynamics. This includes particle scattering, creation and decay.

Most of the particles in the standard model are short lived and quickly decay into smaller particles, with the reduction in rest mass being released as kinetic energy.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta Prime and FactChecker
1727697341616.png


(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_production)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: FactChecker
Tldrknhndsm said:
In nature how and where is energy converted to matter
There is no such thing as free floating energy just flitting around the universe waiting to get converted to matter. Energy is always associated with the state of some field. One field with a certain amount of energy can be changed into another field or fields with the same amount of energy.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: martinbn, Orodruin, PeterDonis and 1 other person
To take it a step further, if you think of energy as some kind of "stuff", you will draw all sorts of incorrect conclusions. Best to move off that position as soon as possible.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: martinbn
Tldrknhndsm said:
In nature how and where is energy converted to matter, where do the necessary conditions exist, is the process well understood, pure theory, or not understood at all?
It depends on what you mean by "understanding something well".
 
Tldrknhndsm said:
In nature how and where is energy converted to matter, where do the necessary conditions exist, is the process well understood, pure theory, or not understood at all?
In the equation ##E_o=mc^2## the ##m## stands for mass, not matter. It is one of the consequences of the Einstein mass-energy equivalence that mass is not a measure of the quantity of matter.

Edit: The concept is well-understood in both theory and practice. It has been confirmed in a great variety of situations and is now accepted as fact. Note that of course that wasn't always the case, it took years or perhaps even decades for the concept to gain overwhelming acceptance.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: martinbn
Tldrknhndsm said:
In nature how and where is energy converted to matter, where do the necessary conditions exist, is the process well understood, pure theory, or not understood at all?

I would say that energy is converted to matter in particle creation, just as matter is converted to energy in particle anti-particle annihiliation.

I don't know all the necessary conditions offhand - there are various quantities that are conserved in the process, some fundamental ones like energy and momentum, some exotic things - "flavour" conservation comes to mind, but I'm not sure my understanding of it as a literally conserved quantity is really accurate. You might repost to the particle physics forum if you need a better answer.

I would say the process is well understood , the current understanding is embodied in what we call the "standard model of particle physics". Experiments are of course being done to test the model, but the model is well understood, quite accurate, and widely accepted.

On a related note, relativity talks about the relationship between energy and mass (and also momentum). This isn't quite what you asked about, your question as interpreted literally is about particle physics as you asked about conversion from energy to matter. But it's possible that your intention was to ask about the relation between energy and mass instead. Several posters have already talked about this, if that was closer to your original question. I would add that if this was your question, it's best to add momentum into the question, as it's related, as I implied earlier.
 
pervect said:
I would say that energy is converted to matter in particle creation, just as matter is converted to energy in particle anti-particle annihiliation.
For suitable definitions of "energy" and "matter", basically that "energy" means "massless fields" and "matter" means "fields with rest mass", this is true.

The problem is that that definition of "energy", at least, doesn't really correspond to anything you will find in the actual physics literature. What you find in the actual physics literature corresponds to what @Dale said in post #4.
 
  • #10
pervect said:
I would say that energy is converted to matter in particle creation, just as matter is converted to energy in particle anti-particle annihiliation.
I think here the word "matter" could be replaced by "rest-energy, that is needed for the interaction with the Higgs-field".
 
  • #11
Sagittarius A-Star said:
I think here the word "matter" could be replaced by "rest-energy, that is needed for the interaction with the Higgs-field".
Rest energy isn't "needed for the interaction" with the Higgs field, it is produced by the interaction with the Higgs field.

Also, if you call it "rest energy", that's energy, and you're no longer talking about "converting energy to matter", since you're saying matter is energy, not something different.
 
  • #12
PeterDonis said:
Rest energy isn't "needed for the interaction" with the Higgs field, it is produced by the interaction with the Higgs field.
In a particle creation, no energy is produced or lost in the system.

PeterDonis said:
Also, if you call it "rest energy", that's energy, and you're no longer talking about "converting energy to matter"
Yes, I say that energy can be only converted to energy.
 
  • #13
Sagittarius A-Star said:
In a particle creation, no energy is produced or lost in the system.
True, but that doesn't contradict what i said or support your claim about the Higgs field. The Higgs interaction produces rest energy, but not from nowhere; it produces it from energy that, before the electroweak phase transition and the start of the Higgs interaction that gives certain fields rest mass, was stored in massless fields. (And, btw, that Higgs interaction is not "particle creation".)

Sagittarius A-Star said:
Yes, I say that energy can be only converted to energy.
That is one way of looking at it, but not the only way.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Sagittarius A-Star

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
5K
  • · Replies 64 ·
3
Replies
64
Views
5K
  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
6K