Basic set theory with quantors question

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around the interpretation of a logical statement involving quantifiers in set theory. The statement asserts the existence of a single element c that must satisfy conditions for all elements a in set A and b in set B. Participants clarify that while the existential quantifier indicates at least one c exists, it must work for all cases where a equals b, implying that c cannot be multiple values. The conclusion reached is that for the statement to hold true, the intersection of sets A and B must contain at most one element. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding the implications of quantifiers in logical expressions.
Smalde
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This is no homework for me.
I am working as a teaching assistant in a lecture about logic and discrete structures for Informatics students. This should be a piece of cake, but I am not exactly sure of the logic behind.

1. Homework Statement


Translate into words
∃c . ∀a ∈ A . ∀b ∈ B . ¬(a = b) ∨ c = b

The Attempt at a Solution



So obviously this means that there is a c such that for all a element of A and all b element of B either a is different than b or c is b or both.
The problem is that they also said that this means that the intersection of A and B has maximally one Element, 1 ≥ |A ∩ B|.My questions is how exactly can one conclude the last part. ∃c means that there is at least one, not necessarily only one.

Obviously for the statement to be true whenever a equals b c has to equal b and thus a, so either ¬(a = b) or a = b = c. But if there can be two cs this statement can be true for two different bs and as and so the intersection needs not be maximally 1...

Could you help me out?

PS: I am not sure if this has to be here... I can move it to another sub-forum if necessary.
 
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Smalde said:
But if there can be two cs

Suppose ##A = \{1,2,3\}##, ##B = \{4,2,3\}##. Can you find any c that satisfies the statement in the problem?
 
Stephen Tashi said:
Suppose ##A = \{1,2,3\}##, ##B = \{4,2,3\}##. Can you find any c that satisfies the statement in the problem?
Well 2 and 3. That's what I do not understand. I was told that the "there exists" symbol means that there exists at least one of something.
 
Smalde said:
Well 2 and 3. That's what I do not understand. I was told that the "there exists" symbol means that there exists at least one of something.
Ok, wait.

I think I get it now: there can exist more than one, but all ought to fulfill the statement in every one case. Is it so?
 
Smalde said:
Well 2 and 3.
Neither 2 nor 3 works.

For example c = 2 does not work for the case a = 3, b = 3.
 
Smalde said:
Ok, wait.

I think I get it now: there can exist more than one, but all ought to fulfill the statement in every one case. Is it so?

Stephen Tashi said:
Neither 2 nor 3 works.

For example c = 2 does not work for the case a = 3, b = 3.

Yes, that's what took me so long to understand. Those cs have to work for all possible cases where a equals b. In other words, in this case, there can only be one such c.

THANKS!
 
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