Being a vegetarian for health reasons

[ehrenfest]

Does it make sense to be a vegetarian purely for health reasons?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

A balanced diet is a balanced diet. I think the debate is still ongoing however as to whether there are specific health benefits/dangers in eating meat that are eliminated with a vegetarian diet. I've known many a person who lived quite well on vegetarian diets and many people whose health suffered on vegetarian diets. I couldn't say I know enough though to determine if those that were in ill health were not managing a balanced diet. Of course it's possible that different people will react differently and may have different dietary needs that may or may not be met with a vegetarian diet.

 

[Moonbear]

Just be careful to blend vegetables appropriately to get complete proteins. If you still include some dairy products in your diet, it's easier to eat a healthy vegetarian diet than if you eliminate all animal products completely. For purely health reasons, there's no reason to choose one diet over another, as long as it's balanced, like StatutoryApe already pointed out.

 

[ehrenfest]

OK. Thanks for that advice. I have been a vegetarian for about six months now. I try to follow the recommendations for eating healthy but one major problem is that it is so hard to find a good source for meal-to-meal nutrition. Sure there are tons of websites that give you a general description of what is healthy (e.g. "avoid excessive saturated fat" or "maintain of a good ratio between carbohydrates and lipids (4:1)" ). I have been trying to find something quantitative for a long time.

I tried this site:

http://www.mypyramid.gov/mypyramid/index.aspx

but the problem is that they list their recommended values in cups. I have no idea what a cup is and nutrition facts on food labels are always listed in grams or milligrams. I wish I could find something similar to that site that listed the recommended intakes in grams or milligrams so I can compare them to the food labels. Please let me know if there is any site that meets that description.

 

[cristo]

You could google what a cup is, no?

 

[ehrenfest]

You could google what a cup is, no?

Even if I knew what a cup was that still does not change the fact that nutrition labels list everything in grams not cups.

 

[cristo]

One could, if one knows the conversion, convert the info in cups into info in grams.

 

[ehrenfest]

One could, if one knows the conversion, convert the info in cups into info in grams.

We don't live in a universe where there is a universal conversion factor between the two. It would be insane to look up conversion factors between mass and volume for every type of food I might eat.

 

[cristo]

The wiki page says cups are used to measure vegetables, and liquids... the site you give returns only vegetables and liquids in cup form.

 

[Evo]

This site has everything, including a conversion chart in the bottom right hand corner.

http://www.nutritiondata.com/

 

[Moonbear]

We don't live in a universe where there is a universal conversion factor between the two. It would be insane to look up conversion factors between mass and volume for every type of food I might eat.

This isn't really all that difficult, it's a simple conversion process. You know now what a cup is in terms of milliliters, so if you do not have cups available where you are, you can measure out the food in milliliters based on that conversion factor. If you're basing your measures on weights, you must already have a kitchen scale to know how much you're eating of a certain weight, so just dump the volume on the scale...instant conversion. Or, just use the nutrition label itself to determine what's in the food...it tells you already what is a serving and how much of many nutrients are in that serving. It's just a little practically applied knowledge that any science student ought to be able to handle.

 

[ehrenfest]

This site has everything, including a conversion chart in the bottom right hand corner.

http://www.nutritiondata.com/

I don't understand how that site is converting cups (volume) into grams (mass) without saying what the substance is.

This isn't really all that difficult, it's a simple conversion process. You know now what a cup is in terms of milliliters, so if you do not have cups available where you are, you can measure out the food in milliliters based on that conversion factor. If you're basing your measures on weights, you must already have a kitchen scale to know how much you're eating of a certain weight, so just dump the volume on the scale...instant conversion. Or, just use the nutrition label itself to determine what's in the food...it tells you already what is a serving and how much of many nutrients are in that serving. It's just a little practically applied knowledge that any science student ought to be able to handle.

No, I don't have a kitchen scale. I usually only eat at places that post their nutrition facts online. I am trying to compare the intake recommendations that myPyrimad.gov (which is in cups) to information on the nutritional labels (which is in grams). I don't see how any of these methods help me with that.

 

[rewebster]

There are problems of being a 'veg' if don't become aware of them. One of my ex's ended up in the hospital due to some nutrient deficiency. (I poke fun at it to some extent still when I don't fill in all the 'blanks'.) But, it can be very serious. It sounds like it may be good if you read up some more.

 

[russ_watters]

I don't understand how that site is converting cups (volume) into grams (mass) without saying what the substance is.

The assumption is that most of the fluids you drink are mostly water: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_ounce

 

[Evo]

I don't understand how that site is converting cups (volume) into grams (mass) without saying what the substance is.

Oh good lord, you look up whatever food you want information on. Ever try reading?

 

[Moonbear]

No, I don't have a kitchen scale. I usually only eat at places that post their nutrition facts online.

Here's a hint...if you're only eating at places that post nutritional info online, you're eating crap. And only vegetarian from those places? What are you getting, fast food fries and salad?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I'm having trouble understanding how exactly you translate cups into grams myself. I mean unless everything you are measuring in cups is wet and liquid. Perhaps nonliquids measure out nearly the same so long as they are wet but what about dry and semi dry substances or particularly dense substances?

 

[rewebster]

Here's a hint:

convert cups into pints, pints into pounds, pounds into feet, feet into ergs---and then ergs into grams.

that should help

 

[Evo]

I'm having trouble understanding how exactly you translate cups into grams myself. I mean unless everything you are measuring in cups is wet and liquid. Perhaps nonliquids measure out nearly the same so long as they are wet but what about dry and semi dry substances or particularly dense substances?

The website I furnished shows weight in grams and ounces and even has a converter.

In answer to your question http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_grams_are_in_a_cup

The conversion site they recommend is http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/cookingconversions.asp

Seriously, this isn't rocket surgery.

 

[rewebster]

Seriously, this isn't rocket surgery.

funny--you're just a Veetoo cut up

 

[RocketSurgery]

The website I furnished shows weight in grams and ounces and even has a converter.

In answer to your question http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_grams_are_in_a_cup

The conversion site they recommend is http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/cookingconversions.asp

Seriously, this isn't rocket surgery.

Good oneBut,
<---------This is

 

[Evo]

Good one


But,
<---------This is

Yes, I stole it from you. I read your explanation of where your name came from and loved it!

 

[RocketSurgery]

Yes, I stole it from you. I read your explanation of where your name came from and loved it!

Haha nice. I'm glad you like it.

 

[ehrenfest]

Here's a hint...if you're only eating at places that post nutritional info online, you're eating crap. And only vegetarian from those places? What are you getting, fast food fries and salad?

No, why would you think so? Most of the restaurants and cafeterias at my university post their nutrition facts online. Subway is not crap either.

 

[RocketSurgery]

Be careful though. I tried going veg for a Month. I ate salads/fruitcuts/pancakes and had a multivitamin everyday. After about a month though I was always wide awake and could only sleep 4hrs everynight. When I started eating meat every few days I stopped having this problem.

 

[ehrenfest]

Be careful though. I tried going veg for a Month. I ate salads/fruitcuts/pancakes and had a multivitamin everyday. After about a month though I was always wide awake and could only sleep 4hrs everynight. When I started eating meat every few days I stopped having this problem.

Interesting. I have not had that problem. The main problem with being a vegetarian for me is that there ARE SO FEW options when I go out to eat. When I go to a place like Subway, almost 95% of the things on their menu have meat in them. And a lot of times restaurants load their few vegetarian items with fat or sodium or both to "make up" for the lack of meat, which makes me furious. Thus, it is very difficult to eat a balanced diet. I end up eating way too many bagels and way too many cups of Panera's "black bean" or "garden vegetable" soup. I imagine it would be easier if I lived in an apartment and not a dorm so that cooking would be more feasible. But I still continue to be a vegetarian:
1) because I think even my restricted herbivorous diet is healthier than the carnivorous diet I ate beforehand
2) because my role model Kiran Kedlaya (http://math.mit.edu/~kedlaya/) is a vegetarian
3) because I don't think eating meat is environmentally sustainable for the entire world population

I really need to read a book about healthy dieting since it means so much to me and yet I am so badly versed in it. Anyone have any suggestions? Has anyone seen a nutritionist? Is that helpful?

 

[Moonbear]

Subway is not crap either.

Yes it is. Lots of processed meats and cheeses filled with preservatives and breads made with refined flours...certainly not much vegetarian on their menu. Now stop being lazy, introduce yourself to standard food measures (it's inconceivable that someone in the US would not know what a cup is), and sort out your diet. None of us is going to monitor what you eat for you, so learn how to do it yourself. This is seriously simple stuff that you should have learned in elementary school.

 

[Evo]

Interesting. I have not had that problem. The main problem with being a vegetarian for me is that there ARE SO FEW options when I go out to eat. When I go to a place like Subway, almost 95% of the things on their menu have meat in them. And a lot of times restaurants load their few vegetarian items with fat or sodium or both to "make up" for the lack of meat, which makes me furious. Thus, it is very difficult to eat a balanced diet. I end up eating way too many bagels and way too many cups of Panera's "black bean" or "garden vegetable" soup. I imagine it would be easier if I lived in an apartment and not a dorm so that cooking would be more feasible.

If you want to eat out and expect a vegetarian menu, don't go to sandwich shops that specialize in meat sandwiches. Either find vegetarian restaurants or make your own.

Can I ask how you can be of college age and not know the simplest, most basic things that most elementary school children would know? No insult meant, I am just really curious how you can not be aware of so many basic things. Were you home schooled? Were you kept out of society before you went to college? I find this intriguing. It's like that Jodie Foster movie where she was a wild child and knew nothing of the basics.

 

[ehrenfest]

Can I ask how you can be of college age and not know the simplest, most basic things that most elementary school children would know? No insult meant, I am just really curious how you can not be aware of so many basic things. Were you home schooled?

I was not home-schooled. They definitely do not teach you how to be a vegetarian in elementary school. Maybe I should know what a cup is...but what else are referring to? I go to subway because it is one of the few places nearby (in walking distance).

 

[RocketSurgery]

Interesting. I have not had that problem. The main problem with being a vegetarian for me is that there ARE SO FEW options when I go out to eat. When I go to a place like Subway, almost 95% of the things on their menu have meat in them. And a lot of times restaurants load their few vegetarian items with fat or sodium or both to "make up" for the lack of meat, which makes me furious. Thus, it is very difficult to eat a balanced diet. I end up eating way too many bagels and way too many cups of Panera's "black bean" or "garden vegetable" soup. I imagine it would be easier if I lived in an apartment and not a dorm so that cooking would be more feasible. But I still continue to be a vegetarian:
1) because I think even my restricted herbivorous diet is healthier than the carnivorous diet I ate beforehand
2) because my role model Kiran Kedlaya (http://math.mit.edu/~kedlaya/) is a vegetarian
3) because I don't think eating meat is environmentally sustainable for the entire world population

I really need to read a book about healthy dieting since it means so much to me and yet I am so badly versed in it. Anyone have any suggestions? Has anyone seen a nutritionist? Is that helpful?

I agree with your reasons. My appreciation for Hindu philosophy also influenced my decision for the diet (the idea of preventing the suffering of all living creatures).

But like you I am in a dorm and unable to get the nutrition I need on this type of diet. I may try again when I get out though.

Edit: I know it's normally shunned upon to talk about religion here but I'm not promoting any religion. I'm simply saying that the philosphy behind the religion influenced me in a certain way. If this violates any rules I'll be happy to remove it.

 

[ehrenfest]

This is seriously simple stuff that you should have learned in elementary school.

Considering the fact that such a high percentage of the American population is obese, overweight, or whatever, I think this is NOT something most people learn in elementary school (or in higher grade levels for that matter).

 

[Evo]

I was not home-schooled. They definitely do not teach you how to be a vegetarian in elementary school. Maybe I should know what a cup is...but what else are referring to? I go to subway because it is one of the few places nearby (in walking distance).

I'm referring to all of your recent threads. From a sociological aspect it appears that you were sequestered until you went to college.

Seriously, for example, you want to become a vegetarian. Go to the library and get some books. Look online. It doesn't take much common sense to figure out what you need to eat. You do not need to take it down to grams of anything. And if you do, you have been provided links that will calculate that for you. More important than how much something weighs is understanding how to combine things to get complete proteins and adequate fiber, minerals, and vitamins. You will probably consume more than you need if you maintain a healthy weight. When in doubt take a multi-vitamin.

 

[Moonbear]

Considering the fact that such a high percentage of the American population is obese, overweight, or whatever, I think this is NOT something most people learn in elementary school (or in higher grade levels for that matter).

They are taught it, they choose to ignore it later. You certainly should be taught about basic weights and measures...ounces, cups, pints, quarts, milliliters, liters, etc. sufficient to follow nutrition recommendations you find online. No, you won't be taught how to have a vegetarian diet, because the recommendations for a balanced diet include meat and dairy products, but you should have the basic knowledge to be able to read a nutrition label and understand it.

 

[ehrenfest]

I'm referring to all of your recent threads. From a sociological aspect it appears that you were sequestered until you went to college.

OK. You probably do deserve to know a little more about my past. Here's the quick story. I went through the American K through 12 school system in a pretty nice suburban public school district. Neither of my parents had careers in science or math and neither of them knew any advanced science or math. In fact, the same holds for everyone in my extended family as well.

High school introduced me to the excitement of math and science. I just finished my second year of college. I am majoring in math and physics. The courses I have taken over these two years and the students and professors I have met have opened up my eyes to mind-bogglingly new ideas. The math professors I have had, especially, have given me a entirely new different type of adult role model than my parents have. In general, the interactions I have with other people as a math and physics major have been shockingly different than the interaction I had when I lived with my parents.

This has led me to try to apply the kind of things I learned in math and physics courses to my personal life. I am just trying to take a more scientific/mathematical approach outside of the classroom. I have been going through all of the things I do by "habit" or that my parents taught me and asking myself if they really make sense. I find that a lot of them do not. The result is that I am adopting many new practices and I have a lot of questions about them. Sorry if I sound like a big baby.

 

[ehrenfest]

Moonbear, this is a post that you wrote from another thread:

A lot of people completely misunderstand the current recommendations for a healthy diet (yes, this is a MAJOR flaw in the design of the Food Pyramid that nobody knows how to "read" it) and are completely overeating breads/grains.

Color added for emphasis. I don't see how this is consistent with saying that everyone learns this stuff in elementary school.

 

[Evo]

OK. You probably do deserve to know a little more about my past. Here's the quick story. I went through the American K through 12 school system in a pretty nice suburban public school district. Neither of my parents had careers in science or math and neither of them knew any advanced science or math. In fact, the same holds for everyone in my extended family as well.

High school introduced me to the excitement of math and science. I just finished my second year of college. I am majoring in math and physics. The courses I have taken over these two years and the students and professors I have met have opened up my eyes to mind-bogglingly new ideas. The math professors I have had, especially, have given me a entirely new different type of adult role model than my parents have. In general, the interactions I have with other people as a math and physics major have been shockingly different than the interaction I had when I lived with my parents.

This has led me to try to apply the kind of things I learned in math and physics courses to my personal life. I am just trying to take a more scientific/mathematical approach outside of the classroom. I have been going through all of the things I do by "habit" or that my parents taught me and asking myself if they really make sense. I find that a lot of them do not. The result is that I am adopting many new practices and I have a lot of questions about them. Sorry if I sound like a big baby.

You don't sound like a big baby, but you *do* seem to ignore the answers that are given to you.

It's great to question things as long as you can recognize when you are given the facts.

If you doubt the facts, do some research. Honestly, you will probably fair better here as far as getting straight answers than some of the junk that is out there.

 

[Moonbear]

Google healthy vegetarian diets and explore the links on the first page of results. Several good ones there. It's that easy. Look into combining foods to get complete proteins (the more variety of foods you eat, the more likely you are to get a complete protein). But, if you don't have a kitchen and are relying on food prepared by other people, unless you have a convenient vegetarian restaurant, you're going to have trouble staying healthy on a vegetarian diet. That's life in the US.

For the record, my parents didn't have any math or science background either...in fact, neither of them had anything past a high school education. I still knew how to fend for myself when I moved away to college.

As for dismissing what your parents did teach you, perhaps you shouldn't be so hasty about that. Rather than completely changing everything you do all at once, which seems to be leaving you rather confused and in a state of chaos, and instead of just emulating other people for rather irrational reasons as well (for example, just because someone is a scientist doesn't mean they have any healthier diet than those who are not scientists...I know plenty of unhealthy scientists...and it doesn't mean you're going to be a better scientist my mimicking them), take your time only changing little things at a time, seeing if they feel right, and deciding whether or not to stick with it after a trial period. For example, when your nearest food supply is either the cafeteria or Subway, it's probably not a good time to start a whole new diet. Instead, learn about the dietary options, taste vegetarian dishes when you have opportunities to do so, and when you have your own kitchen, learn to cook the dishes then. You don't even have to be 100% vegetarian. You might just decide that it's impossible to find food you like on that diet, and once in a while have a small piece of fish or chicken to balance things out.

And, above all else, use some common sense as you approach new ideas!

 

[Moonbear]

Moonbear, this is a post that you wrote from another thread:



Color added for emphasis. I don't see how this is consistent with saying that everyone learns this stuff in elementary school.

The food pyramid is not the only source of nutritional information. It didn't even exist when I was in elementary school. You seem to just want to ignore any advice given to you, as if you already know better than everyone else, yet show some majorly basic gaps in your knowledge. It doesn't make people want to help you much when you seem so unwilling to help yourself.

 

[ehrenfest]

Instead, learn about the dietary options, taste vegetarian dishes when you have opportunities to do so, and when you have your own kitchen, learn to cook the dishes then. You don't even have to be 100% vegetarian.

That makes sense. I think will try that.

 

[Cyrus]

Im eating salad right now. I like salad, its yummy. A good dressing my mom makes is olive oil, a tablespoon of balsamic vinaigrette, a pinch of salt and pepper, and half a table spoon of dijon mustard. The mustard is the most important.

For the salad itself, I like the one from the supermarket that has those 'weeds' type salad.

 

[Moonbear]

Im eating salad right now. I like salad, its yummy. A good dressing my mom makes is olive oil, a tablespoon of balsamic vinaigrette, a pinch of salt and pepper, and half a table spoon of dijon mustard. The mustard is the most important.

For the salad itself, I like the one from the supermarket that has those 'weeds' type salad.

Weed salad? Dressing sounds good...that's a basic vinaigrette, and yes, the dijon mustard is key to get it to taste good.

 

[lisab]

Im eating salad right now. I like salad, its yummy. A good dressing my mom makes is olive oil, a tablespoon of balsamic vinaigrette, a pinch of salt and pepper, and half a table spoon of dijon mustard. The mustard is the most important.

For the salad itself, I like the one from the supermarket that has those 'weeds' type salad.

Mmmmm. Yes, I agree...'wild greens' salad is delicious! Except the most important ingredient is the pepper...

 

[Cyrus]

But I don't like house salads. Tomatoes, maaaaaayyyybe. No carrots. I am more a cesar salad kinda person.

I just ate an entire bowl of salad. Probably enough for 4 people. But all the tomatoes are sitting on bottom of the bowl because I don't like them.

 

[Evo]

Ah, the mixed greens, usually baby leaves of the folowwing arugula, frisee, mache, spinach, raddichio, sorrel, oak leaf lettuce, endive, swiss chard,

 

[RocketSurgery]

I love salad. I have to force the tomatoes down though. Italian dressing for the win!

 

[Poop-Loops]

I NEED tomatoes in my salad, but it can't be too many, either. I love Thousand Islands dressing. LOTS of onions, LOTS of lettuce. Cucumber, garlic, green peppers, spinach, whatever else, is awesome. Croutons, too.

 

[RocketSurgery]

I NEED tomatoes in my salad, but it can't be too many, either. I love Thousand Islands dressing. LOTS of onions, LOTS of lettuce. Cucumber, garlic, green peppers, spinach, whatever else, is awesome. Croutons, too.

Now that sounds like an awesome salad except no lettuce and lots of spinach. I only like Thousand Island if chicken is involved though

 

[Moonbear]

I love salad and love tomatoes, but prefer not having salad dressing ON my tomatoes (a vinaigrette is okay, but other dressings I'm not too fond of on tomatoes), so will try to separate out the tomatoes a bit. Nothing where I'll leave them behind if dressing gets on them, just it doesn't thrill me much.

I like stuff like sundried tomatoes, onions, chick peas, peppers, shredded carrots (only if it's shredded, I don't want them in big chunks), mushrooms, hard boiled eggs (not crumbled, halves), some bacon (real bacon, not fake bacon sprinkle stuff), and yes, I like that spring mix lettuce with all the variety in it plus some extra spinach with it and radicchio (sp?). If I can get some sunflower seeds or pepperoncini, maybe tiny broccoli or cauliflower florets even better. Ooh, and sprinkle some shredded asiago cheese on it! Yep, I could make a whole meal of salad.

Usually, I prefer a balsamic vinaigrette, like Cyrus described. But, if i add a lot of additional vegetables, sometimes a French dressing (the red one, not the creamy orange one), or if I add a little fried chicken on it then some honey mustard or blue cheese.

Drat, still an hour until lunch! Now I'm hungry.

 

[rewebster]

Here's a picture of my favorite salad:









http://kaczmarskyj.com/images/family_recipe_images/steak%20and%20potatoes.jpg


it's that green thing on the left lower corner

 

[Moonbear]

Here's a picture of my favorite salad:









http://kaczmarskyj.com/images/family_recipe_images/steak%20and%20potatoes.jpg


it's that green thing on the left lower corner

Ick! What have they drowned that beautiful steak in? Sacrilege!