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Bible & new testament contradictions

  1. Jul 5, 2003 #1

    drag

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    Greetings !

    I'm really no expert in the field although I do have
    good knowledge of the bible. I would like to ask how,
    if at all, Chritianity deals with the many contradictions
    between the Bible and the teachings of Jesus in the new
    testament ?

    After all, Jesus' teachings resemble much those of
    Mahatma Ghandi, for example. While the bible speaks
    of "eye for an eye", killing of that who comes to kill you,
    killing enemies of the Lord and so on. So, any experts in the
    field here who can ellaborate on this ?

    Thanks ! :smile:

    Live long and prosper.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 5, 2003 #2
    Drag - this is how religious idiots deal with contradictions.

    They will say that they don't really mean what they say - they're try to lie their way out.

    In other words they dodge this at ALL costs.
     
  4. Jul 5, 2003 #3

    drag

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    CS, I would like, if it is possible, to leave the
    truth/falsality of religion out of this discussion, please.

    Like I said, I am not intrested in why the contradictions
    exist or religion itself, but rather in the expert specifics
    of HOW these apparent contradictions are dealt by Chritianity.

    Peace and long life.
     
  5. Jul 5, 2003 #4

    Dx

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    Many teachings of the Bible like everything else have been misconstrued thru time. Eg., Ever ask someone to explain something to 3/4 other people and once that information you sent out to the other 3 persons became misconstrued or interpreted in words not exactly your own. I am a catholic and I believe that the Bible is biult upon the way your interpretations of the Bible are. An eye for an eye, your right it contradicts the teaching of Jesus but if I recall thats why God gave Moses the commandments on Mt Sinai as a way to have his people do the right thing. Its hard to talk about religion cause everyone has thier own interpretations of scriptures. I am no expert but I am hoping this could best explain your question or at least give my opinoin on it.
    May God Be Always With YOU!
    Dx :wink:
     
  6. Jul 5, 2003 #5

    drag

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    Greetings !
    Intresting !
    This is a surprising interpretation that never occured to me.
    This actualy partially reminds me of Buddhism and far-eastern
    religions. I think I should note though that in the Bible,
    I am less familiar with the new testament, the laws of God
    and religious restrictions in general are regarded in
    a rather strict and non-questionable manner. Still, this
    is indeed an inresting, and positive in my opinion, interpretation
    that improves the connection of such a religion with the
    human nature, I think.

    Anybody else ?

    Live long and prosper.
     
  7. Jul 5, 2003 #6
    Drag - I thought I answered your question. Let me repeat.

    My experiences show that "they" try to weasle their way out of it. They never will address the issue at all - ask them and they're just turn it into something else......
     
  8. Jul 5, 2003 #7
    Actually the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament is that one establishes The Law (the Ten Commandments), and the other is the ultimate fulfillment of that law, and hence "transcendence."

    Truth is the vessel (the law) and good is contained within (life in accordance with the law).
     
  9. Jul 5, 2003 #8
    One of the things that Jesus was suppose to have said according to the New Testament was that he came to free us/them from the law. The jewish laws had become so strict and far from the original intent of Moses's laws that the people had to be freed from those laws and learn to live life lawfully because it was right and good not because they feared the jewish law.
    One cannot really call the differences between the teachings of the N.T. and what was written in the O.T. as contradictions because they are really about what became two different religions.
    There are quite enough contradiction in the testaments within themselves to keep anyone busy for quite awhile. But only a relative few of the christian denominations believe in the literal translation of the bible and they frequently contradict themselves and interpet various passages to fit their own dogma or beliefs so most are not really all that fundamentalist even though they claim to be.
     
  10. Jul 5, 2003 #9
    While I agree that the Old Testament does contain a lot of hate, bigotry and bloodshed it also contains a lot of truth, love and wisdom.
    It is after all a collection of stories whose historical validity has nothing to do with the validity, truth, wisdom and worth of the contents and moral of the story. Remember about who and what and when those stories were written.
    They depicted life as it was then and tried reconcile it with a god that they were just getting to know.

    All Christian do not belive in the literal translation or truth of the bible but read it for what it is, a collection of stories poems and songs and faith. They get out of it what they are looking for, understanding and guidance. I don't believe that is cause for ridicule nor condemnation any more than reading the work of Plato, Aristotle or Socrates just to name a few.
     
  11. Jul 5, 2003 #10

    Hurkyl

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    I've heard many a crackpot say the same thing about scientists when topics like relativity are under discussion (and claim triumph when the unexperienced debaters falter in such discussions). What makes your experience better?
     
  12. Jul 6, 2003 #11

    drag

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    Greetings !
    I'm sure those guys at the Vatican did not sit there for so
    long without applying some ellaborate "tricks" to the whole
    thing. :wink: Anyway, you can call it "weasling out" if you want
    and see it that way, but that's what I want to know so please
    allow me to learn, thanks.:wink:
    Well, that kin'na ignores the contradictions all together.
    Even in the 10 commendments a law such as the one that
    speaks of murder is in indirect contradiction of Jesus'
    teachings which on this issue we can sum up - "you shall
    not kill" - not kill anybody under any curcampstance.
    In addition, the Bible contains a lot more laws and
    general guidences of God in addition to te 10 commendments
    in these are in clear contradiction to Jesus' teachings
    (like my examples in the first post of this thread).
    I am not refering to strict religeous laws, but rather
    to the fundumental laws and guiding lines of God's actions
    and intentions that the bible contains.
    But the Bible is still viewed as a holly book in Christianity
    so the connection should be relevant, I think.
    I disagree with that opinion, but that is already a subjective
    matter. I do not think that the Bible's teachings are inferior
    to those of Jesus, quite on the contrary in fact. But, like
    I said that is a matter of subjective opinion and I still
    have the greatest repsect for the courage and mental power
    of people like Mahatma Ghandi who, with no direct connection,
    followed a path similar to that which was preached by Jesus,
    I think.
    Hmm... Then it would seem that the problem is transfered from
    the context to the status of the entire book itself in this
    religion. After all, the Bible is supposed to be the word of God.

    Live long and prosper.
     
  13. Jul 6, 2003 #12
    But the whole point is that maybe there aren't so many contradictions as people might think. And just as times change, so did the Bible. The first part involved the establishment of the law -- in the "external sense" -- and the second part involved its fulfillment -- in the "internal sense." Where the first part is rough and unyielding, and the second part involves compassion and forgiveness. Thus the second part becomes the means by which to transcend the first.
     
  14. Jul 6, 2003 #13
    Gods laws don't change. Time changes, but Gods laws stay forever the same, duh!

    You have done nothing to explain anything, which is a recurring pattern with you.
     
  15. Jul 6, 2003 #14
    You know the answer to to this. The truth is and I do mean the truth is no blunt pun intended, the bible was written by varying degrees of englightenment. It was passed down through time and modifed in some cases. There is a phrase he that find the spirit within him will go no more out. What do you think that meant? There is the "word", the living water, etc.... What do you think this stuff means? The bible is quite real and expresses truth, but you must look objectively admit you do not understand and be open to that lack of understanding and then in your search it happens. This is also true of science, but many people stop short for the answers of others because they are not really concerned with questions and answers.

    Don't settle, I double dog dare you not to.
     
  16. Jul 6, 2003 #15
    No, I'm just not here to tell people what they want to hear.

    Of course when we say times change, that also implies that our inpretation of who we are, in relation to "God's law" changes, in which case it does change or, the need for it ...

    Whereas to truly understand something, is to cast aside its exterior shell (form) and "imbibe" its internal meaning (essence).
     
  17. Jul 6, 2003 #16
    That someone can back the scientist up, if they knew enough.
     
  18. Jul 6, 2003 #17

    drag

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    So, basicly, you're saying that God changed his mind ?
     
  19. Jul 6, 2003 #18
    No, I'm saying perhaps we should look at it in terms of different stages of human development. Much as there's a difference between an infant, a child, a teenager, an adult, etc.
     
  20. Jul 6, 2003 #19

    drag

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    Intresting !
    Another intresting perspective I never considered.
    I wonder what a more modern stage would be like ?
    Like today for example you could say that the "child" is all
    grown up - an adult and is no longer guided but rather left
    to make his own descisions.

    Thanks ! :smile:

    Live long and prosper.
     
  21. Jul 8, 2003 #20
    The Church of Man

    Actually I have a bit of a different take on it: where the Christian Church is 4th in succession to the three previous churches -- the Church of Adam (1), the Church of Noah (2) and the Israelite Church (3) -- the four of which can be viewed as the Church of Man. And, since the Bible compares the relationship between God and the Church with that of Husband and Wife, then it only seems fitting to compare these four churches to the development of the "in-laws" (or parents) of the bridegroom and the bride which, have yet to be introduced. Does that make any sense so far?

    Whereas the Church of Adam corresponds to the man's masculine side or his father (1), thus giving rise to his "dominant aspect" and, to God Himself; the Church of Noah corresponds the man's feminine side or his mother (2), as it was Mother Earth who delivered Noah from the great flood; the Israelite Church corresponds to the woman's masculine side or her father (3), essentially a refined or "substantiated" version of the man's father, thus giving rise to "God's people" so to speak (hence the third leg which completes the triangle); and the Christian Church corresponds to the woman's feminine side or her mother (4), thus giving rise to her "dominant aspect" and hence the "virgin conception" (where woman gives birth to God).

    Beyond that the Bible speaks of Christ as the bridegroom and refers to his "second coming" at the end of times which, is what the Book of Revelation foretells. And yet, the end of times does not signify the end of the world but, the end of an era or age, and hence "church." Whereas contrary to what most people believe, regarding the Book of Revelation in particular, this has already occurred, and the 5th church has already been established. As a matter of fact it coincides more than anything with the "Age of Enlightenment" and the advance of science. And indeed, the person associated with founding it -- i.e., Emanuel Swedenborg -- was a scientist! So if you happen to be a real science buff maybe you can appreciate this?

    So here we have the advent of the 5th church, and hence the bridegroom, and yet very few people are aware of it, least of all those who call themselves "Christians." Nor does it belie what has happened since then, for indeed the 5th church has already come to a close, and a 6th church has been established -- which, is the current "Church of Today." This is only a recent development (over the past 20 years), and coincides with the development of the bride, and more in accord with the United States, the freest nation to ever exist, and hence the emancipation of the "woman's will" (thus entailing the bride's "free choice" in marriage). And here it isn't altogether different from what you were suggesting, in that it involves growing up and making our own decisions.

    I hope this answers your question about the current "state of today?" Sorry for being so verbose, I just didn't know how else to put it? If you would like to read more about it, you can do so by reading the first three chapters of my book ... Thanks! :smile:

    Chapter 1 | Chapter 2 | Chapter 3
     
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