Bohr's calculation of stopping power

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of stopping power in the context of a heavy particle interacting with an atomic electron. Participants explore the assumptions made in the textbook regarding the motion of the electron, the symmetry of the interaction, and the application of Gauss' Law in this scenario.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the symmetry argument that leads to only the perpendicular electric field (E_perpendicular) being considered during the interaction.
  • Another participant suggests that the symmetry arises because the effects before and after the heavy particle reaches the nearest point to the electron are reflections of each other.
  • Concerns are raised about the calculation involving Gauss' Law, specifically regarding the appearance of the factor 4π on the right side of the equation and the absence of ε0.
  • A participant explains that the left side of Gauss' Law makes sense, but questions the reasoning behind the right side's formulation, expecting to see a term involving ε0 instead of 4π.
  • One participant notes a connection between ε0 and the factor 4π, mentioning its relation to the speed of light and the permeability of free space (μ0).
  • Another participant speculates that the textbook may not be using SI units, which could account for the differences in the equations presented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express confusion and seek clarification on specific points, particularly regarding the symmetry argument and the application of Gauss' Law. No consensus is reached on the interpretation of the equations or the assumptions made in the textbook.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in the textbook's assumptions, such as the treatment of the electron as free and the implications of using different unit systems. The discussion remains open-ended regarding the mathematical steps and definitions involved.

EucharisCriss
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so, hey...I'm pretty new to these forums and just needed help understanding a textbook that I'm reading.

I'll give you all the background, but I'm not sure if it is necessary.

They begin by considering a heavy particle of mass M and velocity v passing through a material with an atomic electron at distance b from the particle trajectory. the electron is assumed to be free and initially at rest. Furthermore, it is assumed that the electron only moves slightly during the interaction with the heavy particle. After the collision, it is assumed that the incident heavy particle continues essentially as before (because M>>me)

the impulse is calculated:
I=integral(Fdt)=e * integral(E_perpendicular)[tex]\frac{dt}{dx}[/tex]dx = e integral ( E_perpendicular [tex]\frac{dx}{v}[/tex]

They claim that only E_perpendicular enters because of symmetry. I am a little confused about this actually. I kind of reasoned it out by thinking of the work function (which would give the change in energy for the particle, right) W=integral(F . dx )=integral (eE . dx) = integral( e*E_perpendicular*dx)...(their next to last step seems kind of like this...)...but I think I'm just trying to make up something to understand it...so if anyone could tell me what symmetry they mean, I'd appreciate it.

Also, they go on to calculate the integral( E_perpendicular dx) using Gauss' Law over an infinitely long cylinder centered on the particle trajectory. They claim that:

integral ( E_perpendicular *2*pi*b*dx)=4*pi*z*e

I just don't know where the 4*pi is coming from on the right side (and where epsilon is..) and would really appreciate it if someone could explain this to me.

I hope this is an okay place to post this. It isn't homework, I'm just reading it...

I tried to draw the diagram from the book and it is attached (i hope).

I just feel like I must be missing something major
 

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Welcome to PF!

Hi EucharisCriss! Welcome to PF! :smile:

(have an integral: ∫ and a pi: π and an epsilon: ε :wink:)
EucharisCriss said:
They claim that only E_perpendicular enters because of symmetry. I am a little confused about this actually.

I think the symmetry is because the effect before M reaches the nearest point will be the reflection of the effect after, so the total effect will be perpendicular. :wink:
Also, they go on to calculate the integral( E_perpendicular dx) using Gauss' Law over an infinitely long cylinder centered on the particle trajectory. They claim that:

integral ( E_perpendicular *2*pi*b*dx)=4*pi*z*e

I just don't know where the 4*pi is coming from on the right side (and where epsilon is..) and would really appreciate it if someone could explain this to me.

4πε0 is the factor you always need to include when you use SI units.

(And ε0 is the permittivity of the vacuum)

See the PF Library on Coulomb's law for details. :smile:
 
No, I mean I know Coulomb's law, but the four pi seems to come out of nowhere when you consider that Gauss' law:

ε0∫E . dA = qenc

I mean, Coulomb's law can be derived from this by considering a point charge with a spherical gaussian surface centered on the particle.
ε0∫E . dA = qenc
ε0∫E dA = qenc (because E and dA are at 0 degree angle when charge is positive)
ε0EA = qenc
In this case A=4πr^2
so this is where the 4πε0 in Coulomb's law comes from...

However, in their version of gauss' law, they have no ε0 and an extra 4π on the side side of the enclosed charge (the enclosed charge being ze).
They have changed dA to 2πbdx (2πb being the circumference of the circle and dx being the length of the differential cylindrical shell).
Basically, the left side of this equation makes sense while the existence of the 4π (and the lack of an ε0) on the right sense seems to come from nowhere for me.

What I was expecting to see:
rightside=ze/ε0
What they have:
rightside=4πze

ε0 is slightly related to 4π because c=1/sqrt(ε0μ0)
μ0=4π * 10 ^-7


I would agree with you about the symmetry argument, but it was my thought that the charged particle ze is on a collision path with the electron. I should get the book out, but I'm kind of lazy right now.
 
EucharisCriss said:
… However, in their version of gauss' law, they have no ε0 and an extra 4π on the side side of the enclosed charge (the enclosed charge being ze). …

Hi EucharisCriss! :smile:

My guess is that the book isn't using SI units.
 

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