- #1

sea333

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It should not have any integrals.

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- Intro Physics
- Thread starter sea333
- Start date

- #1

sea333

- 50

- 2

It should not have any integrals.

- #2

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https://openstax.org/details/books/physics

or some others from

https://openstax.org/subjects

- #3

sea333

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Is there a good "classic" book available?

- #4

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Probably more than one, but I do not know the market of those. OpenStax has a big advantage in that you can have a real close look at whether it matches your needs beforehand! And you can order a print copy!Is there a good "classic" book available?

- #5

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https://aapt.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1119/1.2342074?class=pdf&journalCode=pte

These are teacher resources:

https://aapt.org/Resources/upload/Quad1.pdf

...

https://aapt.org/Resources/upload/Quad5.pdf (Electricity)

https://aapt.org/Resources/upload/Quad6.pdf (Magnetism)

https://aapt.org/Resources/upload/Quad7.pdf

See also: a playlist... of the high-school version

Some interesting info at:

https://phyzblog.blogspot.com/2019/07/the-mechanical-universe-high-school.html

- #6

Frabjous

Gold Member

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You want to search for algebra based physics.

- #7

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I cannot recommend any such book. To the contrary, I'd strongly decline to use such a book. Physics without calculus is incomprehensible to begin with. The most bad of all didactical sins is the invention of what's called "calculus-free physics".

It should not have any integrals.

- #8

weirdoguy

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So you want high school students to know vector calculus? Or not to teach them physics?

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- #10

weirdoguy

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but we learned E&M at high-school using line, surface, and volume integrals.

Well, in polish high-school people only learn derivatives and that is during last year. And as a high-school teacher I can assure you you can do a lot without calculus. Of course you can't derive e.g. formula for magnetic induction of an infinite line with a current, but you can use this formula in different exercises. In polish physics olympiad there are a lot of problems that of course can be easily dealt with calculus, but also can be dealt without it, by using some fancy reasoning. That's how you check if someone understands the physics, not just know how to do an integral or derivative. For example consider two bodies moving on a straight non-parallel lines. What is the shortest distance between them? You can use derivatives, but also you can just change your frame of reference to one in which one of the bodies is at rest and then calculate the distance between this body and a line on which the other one is moving 🦜

- #11

sea333

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Well, in polish high-school people only learn derivatives and that is during last year. And as a high-school teacher I can assure you you can do a lot without calculus. Of course you can't derive e.g. formula for magnetic induction of an infinite line with a current, but you can use this formula in different exercises. In polish physics olympiad there are a lot of problems that of course can be easily dealt with calculus, but also can be dealt without it, by using some fancy reasoning. That's how you check if someone understands the physics, not just know how to do an integral or derivative. For example consider two bodies moving on a straight non-parallel lines. What is the shortest distance between them? You can use derivatives, but also you can just change your frame of reference to one in which one of the bodies is at rest and then calculate the distance between this body and a line on which the other one is moving 🦜

If you are a high-school teacher can't you recommend a few books?

- #12

weirdoguy

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- #13

sea333

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so you can't recommend to your students any English books?

- #14

weirdoguy

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- #15

sea333

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I am mainly looking for some modern book with media links in the book.

- #16

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It is by far more important to be curious, willing to learn, and ambitious than it is to choose a nice book or video lecture. And in my opinion, pencil and paper are more important than fancy youtube clips. It sticks more if you write it yourself, rather than enjoying the movie.I am mainly looking for some modern book with media links in the book.

- #17

weirdoguy

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And in my opinion, pencil and paper are more important than fancy youtube clips.

And that is why I think that older, "black and white", versions of Halliday&Resnick are better

- #18

DaveE

Science Advisor

Gold Member

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OTOH, I was taught Calculus first. So maybe there is an alternate treatment of EM that is beyond my imagination.

- #19

Frabjous

Gold Member

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- #20

weirdoguy

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Why do you want to teach EM before students have the tools to learn it easily or correctly?

Because that is what polish educational system forces me to do, and also I do not think that you need calculus to grasp Coulomb's law, what is an electric field, superposition of fields, capacitors and movement of charges in an electric field of a capacitor, electric potential energy, and other topics.

Polish high school starts when children are at the age of 15 and lasts for four years. I'm glad that you all were taught vector calculus at that age but I don't think that it is a good idea in the reality of my country. And I don't think you can't teach anything without caluculus. I do that for 12 years now and I can assure you it's hard for children even without calculus. I learned vector calculus during my first year at the university and had two courses on electrodynamics - basic taught by experimental physicsts and then the second, one more theoretical (that one was the hardest lecture during bechelor studies). And I'm glad that I learned the non-calculus basics first.

What are the chances that whatever you teach them, they will just have to relearn later with better tools?

100%, because they will learn proper calculus when they go to univrsity or polytechnic and then they will learn calculus based physics.

I really do have a feeling that some of you mix up high-school with upper level, univeristy-like studies

- #21

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I also can't believe that in Poland there is really no calculus involved in high-school physics. Even in Germany, where the quality has monotonously decreased within the recent years, there's still some use of high-school calculus in physics.

- #22

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?

- #23

weirdoguy

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I also can't believe that in Poland there is really no calculus involved in high-school physics.

Welcome to my beautiful country Where the government is more focused on financing church than on education. For quite a long time there was completely nothing from calculus. Derivatives were added back to math curriculum in 2015, and are taught in the last grade. I know that in the 80's even differential equations and complex numbers were taught. Good old days...

- #24

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- #25

- #26

Mondayman

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I also can't believe that in Poland there is really no calculus involved in high-school physics. Even in Germany, where the quality has monotonously decreased within the recent years, there's still some use of high-school calculus in physics.

Here in Canada, provincial governments have responsibility for education, so each province varies, but not by much. I am not sure of any province that includes calculus in its physics courses. In Alberta there certainly isn't any.

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