Boundary value problem- Random Walker

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a boundary value problem related to a random walker, specifically focusing on the probabilities associated with the walker's position over time. Participants explore the formulation of difference equations and the implications of defining probabilities at various points.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the setup of the general equation for the random walk and the implications of defining probabilities at specific points. There are attempts to clarify the meaning of the probabilities calculated and the conditions under which they apply. Questions arise about the validity of the general formula and the need for boundary conditions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing guidance on reinterpreting the problem and suggesting alternative definitions for the probabilities involved. There is recognition of potential errors in the original formulation, and some participants are exploring the relationships between different probabilities as well as the implications of boundary conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of defining probabilities correctly in the context of the random walk, particularly in relation to starting points and the number of steps taken. There is an acknowledgment of the need for boundary conditions to solve the problem effectively.

potatocake
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Homework Statement
A walker performs a random walk on the grid points from 0 to N. Each time he tosses a fair coin, he moves one step forward if it is a head otherwise he moves one step backward. The random walk stops when the walker is at either 0 or N. What is the probability that the walker ends up at 0 given that he begins at i?
Relevant Equations
let the probability of the walker at i point to be P_i , P_0 = 1, P_N =0
I want to solve this using difference equation. So I set up the general equation to be
Pi = 0.5 Pi+1 + 0.5 i-1

I changed it to euler's form pi = z
0.5z2-z+0.5 = 0
z = 1
since z is a repeated real root
I set up general formula
Pn = A(1)n+B(1)n
then
P0 = A = 1
PN = A+BN = 0 -> A= -BN

This gives a general formula
Pn = 1- 1/N *n

However, I have no idea how I can show the probability that the walker ends up at 0 given that he begins at i. would it still be 1?
 
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You've calculated P_n as the probability that the walker reaches 0 given that he is at position n, even if you didn't acutally define it that way. So you're done.
 
potatocake said:
let the probability of the walker at i point to be P_i , P_0 = 1, P_N =0
You can't define the probability of being at a particular point this way. There will be a probability of being at a particular point given having been at some other specified point some specified number of steps earlier.
Indeed, having set P0 to 1 the probability of being anywhere else must be zero.
Since the problem specifies starting at 1, you can define Pk(n) as the probability of being at n after k steps. Then P0(1)=1, etc.

But a more convenient approach is turn it around and let Pn be the probability of terminating at 0 given that we start at n. That avoids having to specify the number of steps. I think you'll find the algebra largely the same as you wrote.
potatocake said:
since z is a repeated real root
I set up general formula
Pn = A(1)n+B(1)n
I think you left out a factor n on one term.
potatocake said:
This gives a general formula
Pn = 1- 1/N *n
I assume you mean 1-n/N, but that does not give a probability distribution since it does not sum to 1.
 
I assume you mean 1-n/N, but that does not give a probability distribution since it does not sum to 1.

Does that mean my general formula is wrong?

But a more convenient approach is turn it around and let Pn be the probability of terminating at 0 given that we start at n. That avoids having to specify the number of steps. I think you'll find the algebra largely the same as you wrote

Does that mean I have to get
Pn(0) ?
 
potatocake said:
Does that mean my general formula is wrong?
The entire method is wrong, as I indicated:
haruspex said:
You can't define the probability of being at a particular point this way. There will be a probability of being at a particular point given having been at some other specified point some specified number of steps earlier.
That said, I suspect you landed on the right answer by sheer luck. This is why @pasmith thought you had got there.
potatocake said:
Does that mean I have to get
Pn(0) ?
No, I may have confused you by completely redefining P. To avoid confusion I'll reword it:
haruspex said:
a more convenient approach is to turn it around and let Qn be the probability of terminating at 0 given that we start at n.
With this definition, what is the relationship between Qn-1, Qn and Qn+1?
 
Last edited:
haruspex said:
With this definition, what is the relationship between Qn-1, Qn and Qn+1?
I suppose it will form
Qn = 0.5Qn+1+0.5Qn-1 ...?

then will the probability of terminating at 0 given that we start from 0 is
Q0 = 1
and probability of terminating at 0 given that we start from N is
QN = 0.5QN+1 + 0.5QN-1??

Then how would I solve the differential equation? Through iterations? or using Euler's form?
If QN does not give me a constant value, I don't have boundary conditions.
 
potatocake said:
I suppose it will form
Qn = 0.5Qn+1+0.5Qn-1 ...?

then will the probability of terminating at 0 given that we start from 0 is
Q0 = 1
and probability of terminating at 0 given that we start from N is
QN = 0.5QN+1 + 0.5QN-1??

Then how would I solve the differential equation? Through iterations? or using Euler's form?
If QN does not give me a constant value, I don't have boundary conditions.

Q_N is constant: it's zero. That's one of your boundary conditions, the other being Q_0 = 1. You solved this recurrence relation correctly in your original post; your error was to describe P_n as "probability of being at n" rather than "probability of reaching 0 given being at n".
 
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