Box topology does not preserve first countable

In summary, the conversation discusses the first countability of the product topology when each X_n is first countable. It is mentioned that this does not hold for the box topology and a counterexample is requested. The conversation then provides a counterexample using Cantor's diagonal argument, showing that the product topology is not first countable. The question of whether it is sequential is raised.
  • #1
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So, in the topology text I'm reading is mentioned that if each ##X_n## is first countable, then ##\prod_{n\in \mathbb{N}} X_n## is first countable as well under the product topology. And then it says that this does not need to be true for the box topology. But there is no justification at all. Does anybody know a good counterexample?
 
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  • #2
Let [itex]X_n=\mathbb{R}[/itex] and [itex]X= \prod_{n \in \mathbb{N}} X_n = \mathbb{R}^{\mathbb{N}}[/itex]. Suppose [itex]U_{n \in \mathbb{N}}[/itex] is a countable neighborhood basis for the point [itex]\vec{0} = (0,0, \ldots ) \in X[/itex].

See if you can think of an open neighborhood of [itex]\vec{0}[/itex] that does not contain anyone of the [itex]U_n[/itex]'s. That would contradict the assumption that the [itex]U_n[/itex]'s form a countable neighborhood basis of [itex]\vec{0}[/itex] in the first place and would show that [itex]X[/itex] is not first countable.
 
  • #3
As an added hint, recall Cantor's diagonal argument.
 
  • #4
Thanks a lot guys!

Here's what I came up with. We can of course assume that ##U_n = \prod_{k\in \mathbb{N}} (a_k^n,b_k^n)##, and that all intervals ##(a_k^n,b_k^n)## are bounded. Now we consider the neighborhood ##\prod_{k\in \mathbb{N}} (a_k^k/2, b_k^k/2)##. This is not included in any ##U_n##. That seems to do it.

So it's not first countable. But maybe it is sequential? Is there something known about that?
 
  • #5


The statement that the box topology does not preserve first countable is indeed true. This means that if each ##X_n## is first countable, it does not necessarily follow that ##\prod_{n\in \mathbb{N}} X_n## is first countable under the box topology. This can be seen by considering the following counterexample:

Let ##X_n## be the set of real numbers with the standard topology for all ##n\in \mathbb{N}##. This means that each ##X_n## is first countable. Now, let ##X## be the set of all real sequences, i.e. ##X = \prod_{n\in \mathbb{N}} X_n##. Under the box topology, the open sets are generated by sets of the form ##U = \prod_{n\in \mathbb{N}} U_n##, where each ##U_n## is an open set in ##X_n##. However, for any sequence ##x = (x_1, x_2, \ldots )\in X##, the collection of all open sets containing ##x## under the box topology is given by ##\{U\subseteq X : x\in U\} = \{U \subseteq X : x_n\in U_n \text{ for all } n\in \mathbb{N}\}##. This collection is uncountable, since there are uncountably many choices for each ##U_n##. Therefore, ##X## is not first countable under the box topology, since there is no countable basis for the topology.

In contrast, under the product topology, the open sets are generated by sets of the form ##V = \prod_{n\in \mathbb{N}} V_n##, where each ##V_n## is an open set in ##X_n## and only finitely many of the ##V_n## are different from ##X_n##. In this case, the collection of all open sets containing ##x## is given by ##\{V\subseteq X : x\in V\} = \{V \subseteq X : x_n\in V_n \text{ for all but finitely many } n\in \mathbb{N}\}##. This collection is countable, since there are only countably many choices for the finitely many ##V
 

1. Why does the box topology not preserve first countable?

The box topology is defined as the collection of all possible Cartesian products of open sets from each space. This means that the open sets in the box topology are not necessarily countable unions of basis elements, which is a fundamental property of first countable spaces.

2. What is an example of a space where the box topology does not preserve first countable?

An example of such a space is the Sorgenfrey line, which is the real line with the topology generated by the basis of half-open intervals [a,b).

3. How does the box topology differ from the product topology?

The product topology is defined as the collection of all possible finite intersections of projections of open sets from each space. This means that the open sets in the product topology are countable intersections of basis elements, which preserves the first countable property.

4. Can a space be first countable in one topology but not the other?

Yes, a space can be first countable in the product topology but not in the box topology, as seen in the example of the Sorgenfrey line.

5. Are there any advantages to using the box topology over the product topology?

Yes, the box topology is often more useful in certain situations, such as when studying convergence of sequences or the behavior of continuous functions. It also has simpler properties and is easier to work with in some cases.

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