Building a device for RF transmission/detection

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design and construction of a device for RF transmission and detection, specifically for applications related to NMR spectroscopy. Participants explore the necessary components, potential challenges, and considerations for building the device, including the creation of specific frequency sine waves and the processing of response signals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines the required components for the RF device, including DDS, DAC, LNA, ADC, and quadrature circuits, and seeks advice on suitable controllers, suggesting FPGAs or microcontrollers.
  • Another participant suggests using USB dongle-type receivers like the Rafael Micro R820T for receiving RF signals and mentions GNU Radio for signal decoding.
  • A different participant proposes repurposing commercial radios, particularly those used in RC toys operating at similar frequencies, as a potential shortcut for the project.
  • Concerns are raised about regulatory compliance regarding RF emissions, particularly the importance of understanding FCC regulations for operating in the 40.05 MHz band.
  • One participant expresses enthusiasm for learning RF electronics and discusses the project’s context as a benchtop NMR spectrometer, emphasizing the need for convenience and time resolution while acknowledging potential sensitivity issues.
  • Another participant suggests a signal throughput idea involving inductive detection and a fixed-frequency transmitter, indicating a collaborative exploration of technical solutions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement on the complexity of the project and the necessity of certain components, while differing on the approach to building the device, such as whether to repurpose existing technology or build from scratch. Regulatory concerns regarding RF emissions also highlight a point of contention.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of compatibility between components, particularly regarding clock frequencies and operating voltages, but do not resolve the specifics of these compatibility issues. The discussion also reflects a range of expertise levels among participants, with some expressing uncertainty about RF technology.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in RF electronics, particularly those involved in NMR spectroscopy, as well as those looking to understand the integration of various electronic components in RF applications.

cis-ddp
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Hi Physics Forums,

I'm a biochemist whose electronics experience is limited to resonant RLC circuits. I have been tasked with building a device that essentially acts as an RF antenna. In transmit mode, this device must create a sine wave of specific frequency (current plan is 40.05 MHz), convert it to analog, and transmit it to a resonant RLC circuit with sub-ms timing resolution. The device must then use the RLC circuit to listen to an exponentially-decaying sinusoid response signal of similar frequency, amplify the signal, convert to digital, split the signal into quadrature phase waveforms, and output the data to a computer.

So far, I have determined that I will need a DDS to create the initial waveform, DAC to transmit to the RLC circuit, LNA, ADC, quadrature circuit (directional coupler, mixers connected to DDS) to separate the phases, and I/O board to a computer.

Question #1: Given that the device should operate using a preprogrammed sequence so that users can just push 'start' to use, which controller would be most appropriate for the device? I have seen similar devices use FPGAs, but would a microcontroller be easier to use? Do you have a favorite brand or product that you would recommend?

Question #2: As I look for commercial products of the above components, what compatibility issues should I keep in mind? I'm not entirely familiar with the ramifications of choosing particular clock frequencies, operating voltages, or memory.

Question #3: Which tutorials/references would you recommend as being particularly useful in this application? Google has been super helpful with generally understanding the components alone, but I would really like to learn how they behave when connected.

Thank you very much for your help!
 
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For the receiver you might want to look at USB dongle-type receivers, the Rafael Micro R820T chip can output a raw I/Q data digital data to a computer over the 24 - 1766 MHz range. GNU Radio can be used (or a custom program with the GNU Radio libraries) to decode almost any RF signal.

http://sdr.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/rtl-sdr

Receiver application "gqrx" output from a USB dongle "rtl-sdr" at 27mhz.
https://flic.kr/p/dYvm98
http://gqrx.dk/
 
This sounds like a very complex project for someone without a lot of experience.

Can you repurpose a commercial radio? A lot of RC toys operate at 40 MHz so you might be able to buy a device to do the heavy lifting for you.

Maybe you can start along these lines: http://www.nemhobby.com/xs-6-pro-sport-syn-40-mhz-p31858.html
 
cis-ddp said:
Hi Physics Forums,

I'm a biochemist whose electronics experience is limited to resonant RLC circuits. I have been tasked with building a device that essentially acts as an RF antenna. In transmit mode, this device must create a sine wave of specific frequency (current plan is 40.05 MHz), convert it to analog, and transmit it to a resonant RLC circuit with sub-ms timing resolution. The device must then use the RLC circuit to listen to an exponentially-decaying sinusoid response signal of similar frequency, amplify the signal, convert to digital, split the signal into quadrature phase waveforms, and output the data to a computer.

So far, I have determined that I will need a DDS to create the initial waveform, DAC to transmit to the RLC circuit, LNA, ADC, quadrature circuit (directional coupler, mixers connected to DDS) to separate the phases, and I/O board to a computer.

Question #1: Given that the device should operate using a preprogrammed sequence so that users can just push 'start' to use, which controller would be most appropriate for the device? I have seen similar devices use FPGAs, but would a microcontroller be easier to use? Do you have a favorite brand or product that you would recommend?

Question #2: As I look for commercial products of the above components, what compatibility issues should I keep in mind? I'm not entirely familiar with the ramifications of choosing particular clock frequencies, operating voltages, or memory.

Question #3: Which tutorials/references would you recommend as being particularly useful in this application? Google has been super helpful with generally understanding the components alone, but I would really like to learn how they behave when connected.

Thank you very much for your help!

Can you say more about the application? Is it for an NMR/MRI device?

Will the EM energy be contained within a shielded room or lab? If not, is 40.05MHz a licensed band? The FCC (for the U.S.) has regulations that govern what energy gets launched in the RF spectrum -- it's very important to understant and abide by those rules, since it's a very bad thing to create unwanted interference with others who are correctly using the RF bands.
 
@nsaspook Thanks for introducing me to the RTL-SDR. That's a really cool product. Here's an idea for signal throughput in 'detect mode':

RF damped sine wive inductively detected with loop -> LNA -> fixed-frequency transmitter (crystal oscillator?) -> RTL-SDR -> computer

@analogdesign I agree that this will take a lot of work, but my deadline is rather relaxed (about 1.5 years to protoype), and I am very motivated to learn more about RF electronics. Repurposing other devices is an optional, but I want to try piecing it together myself first.

@berkeman Yes! I'm so happy that my description was at least accurate enough for someone to guess that it is an NMR spectrometer. My project is to build a benchtop spectrometer for performance of biochemical assays on low-volume, time-sensitive samples. The design emphasizes convenience and time resolution, but some sensitivity issues are to be expected with low-field NMR.

Edit: And while it will be benchtop operated, I do plan to have the device properly shielded.
 
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