Bull charging and you charge the bull

[TheWonderer1]

So other than that is my math basically correct? If this is the case, then the bull charging you would give you a lot more energy.

 

[Ibix]

I'm sorry - I asked slightly the wrong question above. It's been a long day. The question is, what is the total kinetic energy of the system before and after the collision in each of the two frames? Where did the energy go? Having thought about that, do you notice anything about the change in each case?

 

[TheWonderer1]

I'm a bit confused myself and I feel like at this point anything I say will stem from that. I know this is awkward but could you just explain it? I feel that this confusion might continue otherwise.

I think they both change the same amount from after and before. It's like 4,500J, the difference. It's not the same afterwards though and I think the bull charging has a much higher kinetic energy on the human. I guess energy is lost by heat. I am just thinking about how the bull has energy as it charges.

 

[OCR]

I would take one step to the side just before estimated time of impact...

My brother actually did try that, and this is what happened...

It's unusual, but one of our bulls did charge him... he was aware of the fact, and knew he couldn't out run the bull, but, he thought he could use his hand to help push himself away from the bulls head, and actually, this is a fairly common technique used when working with cattle... not necessarily charging bulls, though.

My brother was standing just slightly to one side, and as the bull was about to make contact, my brother extended his hand to push on the bulls head...

The bull, almost instantly, lowered and turned it's head... my brother's hand missed the bulls head, the bull's head caught my brother about mid-body, and lifting it's head, flipped my brother into the air, then caught him on the way down... again, lifting it's head... this time, though, the bull's head caught my brother's right hip, fracturing it.

He was very lucky that the bull just walked away... sometimes they don't...!

this is a fairly common technique used when working with cattle...

This bull isn't "charging" but you can, more or less, understand the... technique used.

Oh, and BTW, we raise naturally polled Angus cattle... they don't have horns.

Would you be better off standing your ground?

I think my brother would say... "No!" ..

 

[houlahound]

It helps if you circle a bit, bulls commit pretty well to a charge and usually shut their eyes just before impact unlike cows who are way more dangerous.cows stand up in front of you with their eyes open and try trip you by kicking forward with their front feet and rake with their horns.
Polls are more dangerous and can usually fight with more skill as you found out.

I was involved with a few restocking programs when some big holdings got taken over by national parks.

Lots of helicopters, portable pens, motorbikes, horses, dogs and chaos.

 

[TheWonderer1]

Hey guys, I'm appreciative the answers thus far but please be aware that involving bulls and humans or a more massive ball hitting a lighter ball is the same to me. Let's go forward with a bull and human without the Earth involved. This is an unrealistic scenario and that's the parameters. From what I have gathered so far, the momentum and energy given as an observer or the Earth perspective doesn't matter. It's only the energy and momentum that's coming at the person. Now, I see that Ibix has tried to explain this to me using a word problem. I believe that the end of this word problem as I currently understand it is that the Bull charging the human scenario means that the human has more kinetic energy at the end of the collision. Additionally, the human charging the bull has less kinetic energy comparatively. Furthermore, the total energy DIFFERENCE from before and after is exactly the same between the two different scenarios. I don't know where the rest of the energy goes.

I do understand how the charging bull AND human charging scenario would mean more damage. I think this was shown very well by FactChecker.

I'm confused on the fact that there is the kinetic energy difference between the scenarios (after collision). Although, people are saying the charging bull or charging human scenarios are exactly the same with exactly the same result. If someone can take Ibix's example further with a explanation so this can continue on. I would be greatly appreciated

Apologies, but I need to keep this on track and moving along.

Here's my real life example as to why the scenarios shouldn't be the same from lacrosse: In the lighter object hitting a bigger object, I weighed about 60kg and the guy I hit may have weight about 90 kg. This guy felt my hit and ultimately, he got enraged by the fact that I hit him. When I was standing still, he hit me straight on while I stopped. I felt that far more than I felt my hit on him. Therefore, I cannot believe they are the same scenario. I would say we both were moving at constant speeds since you cannot accelerate by much in contact sports without getting penalized.

 

[jedishrfu]

Let's remember to keep to the OP's original questions and problem parameters.

If we've exhausted the topic then we should close the thread to avoid its going totally off topic.

Take care,
Jedi

 

[jedishrfu]

Here's a real life bull vs bull collision



From it you can see that two equally massive bulls collide and stop. Now if one were a human running at the bull then the human would bounce back a lot more and the bull would still continue forward with reduced momentum.

Example 3 in the web page below covers your case of a more massive object striking a less massive object trying to move away.

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/cla...g-Equations-as-a-Recipe-for-Algebraic-Problem

 

[A.T.]

I felt that far more than I felt my hit on him.

Yeah, it feels better to hit someone, than to be hit. But your subjective impression cannot be fully modeled with basic mechanics.

 

[jedishrfu]

This is better modeled in martial arts. When we prepare to spar, we tighten our muscles so getting hit in the stomach is not too bad but if we got hit in the stomach area when they were relaxed it would hurt a lot more and the wind would be knocked out of us.

It's the expected hit versus unexpected hit where we aren't prepared and more parts of your body feel the hit.

 

[Nidum]

The bull is a powered vehicle .

Because of it's high power and large mass it approximates to being a constant velocity motion source when charging .

After contact with a relatively lightweight object like a person the bull continues moving forward under power with almost the same velocity as before contact .

In reality of course the bull makes a conscious decision about what to do next after contact - this is not just a dynamics problem .

It is easier to analyse this sort of situation by considering the interaction between contacting carts with simple impact responses . Heavy cart with powerful engine v lightweight cart with feeble engine .