# News Bush in Baghdad - 2 Shoes, Size 10

#### Proton Soup

cyrus, dude, just let it go. he's commander in chief, head of the military. we just stomped all over iraq and, for better or worse, there's a lot of distraught people there. he took an ineffectual symbolic shot at a guy that is a legitimate non-civilian target. and he's likely going to pay dearly for that. if it were a US reporter, i'd say it's inexcusable. but given the way the president seems to be smirking and taking it in stride, i wouldn't be surprised if he tries to work in some kind of pardon for the guy on his way out. and if he did, it's probably even strengthen relations between us and the iraqis.

#### Cyrus

You'll find that at least half of the nation disagrees with you.
Where is this magical bag that you grab all these 'facts and figures' from? Half the nation disagrees with me? Could you show me a source that says "Half the nation does not think the president symbolizes america."

Note: I didn't ask you about his approval rating. I said he symbolizes the country.

I wouldn't have lost any sleep over it. Look, Cyrus, it's obvious that we have different views from you. Personally, hearing about this put a smile on my face because the man did what so many others could only dream of doing. I view Bush as a traitor and tyrant.
You are welcome to hold those beliefs. If you're happy the president was assulted, that's your own right -albeit rather unfortunate.

In fact, if this had happened to almost any other person -- including you -- I would have been pretty angry. But G-Bush and his NeoCon gang deserve no better in my opinion.
They will be gone in about a month. Wishing and praising violence does no one any good.

I view this in a similar vein to Jesse Owens sticking it to Hitler in the 1936 Olympics.
I don't recall Owens attacking anyone. The way in which he made his point was honorable. The analogy is meaningless.

If you want to use that analogy you would have to say something to the effect: I really admire that reporter because he busted Bush's chops with some hard questions infront of the whole world.

W

#### WarPhalange

Where is this magical bag that you grab all these 'facts and figures' from? Half the nation disagrees with me? Could you show me a source that says "Half the nation does not think the president symbolizes america."

Note: I didn't ask you about his approval rating. I said he symbolizes the country.
The people who think he's doing a really bad job do not think he symbolizes America. Hell, other countries don't think he symbolizes America. And no, these aren't cold hard facts, these are educated guesses.

You are welcome to hold those beliefs. If you're happy the president was assulted, that's your own right -albeit rather unfortunate.
For him. It's fortunate for me because it put a smile on my face.

They will be gone in about a month. Wishing and praising violence does no one any good.
Gone isn't enough in my opinion. They did a lot of damage to this country and its reputation as well as decimating another.

I don't recall Owens attacking anyone. The way in which he made his point was honorable. The analogy is meaningless.
I find meaning in it, so I don't know what to tell you.

If you want to use that analogy you would have to say something to the effect: I really admire that reporter because he busted Bush's chops with some hard questions infront of the whole world.
That would only have worked if Hitler had completely ignored Owens's victory and given the medal to someone else, since Bush would have just dodged those questions.

#### Cyrus

The people who think he's doing a really bad job do not think he symbolizes America. Hell, other countries don't think he symbolizes America. And no, these aren't cold hard facts, these are educated guesses.
I think you don't understand what a president represents. He is an ambassador. We voted for him, so when he goes to another country he speaks 'for us'. He is a symbol of the united states as a whole.

For example, let's say you win the American Award for Physics (I Just made that award title up). And you are invited to the white house by none-other than Bush himself to accept the award. When he hands it to you, its not President Bush that gave you the award. Its president Bush giving you the award on the behalf of the AMERICAN PEOPLE. This is what a president stands for. A symbol of the collective whole.

#### Vid

What kind of news station would hire him to begin with?
When the president takes the time out of his busy schedule to go to Iraq and puts himself at big risk while doing so (very dangerous region), it looks very bad when some smuck starts throwing shoes at the president when hes there trying to get work done rebuilding the country.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/world/middleeast/14reconstruct.html?_r=1&hp

The bitterest message of all for the reconstruction program may be the way the history ends. The hard figures on basic services and industrial production compiled for the report reveal that for all the money spent and promises made, the rebuilding effort never did much more than restore what was destroyed during the invasion and the convulsive looting that followed.

By mid-2008, the history says, $117 billion had been spent on the reconstruction of Iraq, including some$50 billion in United States taxpayer money.

#### Cyrus

So instead of asking questions with the facts similar to what you provided, he should throw his shoes?

I'm missing your point here. You're not helping his case any.

#### Vid

Bush wouldn't have answered them anyway.

#### Cyrus

Bush wouldn't have answered them anyway.
Did Bush personally tell you this?

Folks: Please stop making statements as if they were matter of fact.

W

#### WarPhalange

For example, let's say you win the American Award for Physics (I Just made that award title up). And you are invited to the white house by none-other than Bush himself to accept the award. When he hands it to you, its not President Bush that gave you the award. Its president Bush giving you the award on the behalf of the AMERICAN PEOPLE. This is what a president stands for. A symbol of the collective whole.
That's not how I view it. I can easily separate Bush the President of America from Bush the Ruiner of America.

Considering that Bush's approval rating is so abysmal I don't think the population at large will be outraged over this.

And no, this isn't a fact, but it doesn't take a huge leap in logic to make that kind of educated guess.

B

#### Bilal2

As Middle Eastern, I can say that throwing the shoes is worse than spitting on, or slapping.

This journalist is leftist. He was kidnapped in Iraq a few months ago and he was tortured severely.

T

#### tchitt

Yeah, noone's defending the reporter here... He isn't even an American... who cares? I understand your point, Cyrus, but why are your panties in a bunch over some random Iraqi journalist?

I mean to some this may be funny, others will shake their heads... but I doubt anything of real consequence will come from this. It's a sign of the times, not a part of the problem.

#### Cyrus

Yeah, noone's defending the reporter here... He isn't even an American... who cares? I understand your point, Cyrus, but why are your panties in a bunch over some random Iraqi journalist?

I mean to some this may be funny, others will shake their heads... but I doubt anything of real consequence will come from this. It's a sign of the times, not a part of the problem.

#### cristo

Staff Emeritus
but given the way the president seems to be smirking and taking it in stride, i wouldn't be surprised if he tries to work in some kind of pardon for the guy on his way out.
What do you mean "work in some kind of pardon"? I wasn't aware that this incident happened on US soil, where the president has power.

#### Jimmy Snyder

:rofl:^2

That post floored me, jimmy!!!
Thanks. I'm never too proud to steal other peoples' ideas and so I will add that witnesses (nose-witnesses?) said they smelled an odor coming from the sandy dune.

A

#### Alfi

The controversy won't start till it gets leaked that they're both left foot shoes. ;)

Unprofessional or not, I'm glad somebody did something to demonstrate the dislike for Bush.
I for one, would like to see a war crimes court held for Bush and Cheney.
Throw a book at em instead of shoes.

#### Cyrus

I for one, would like to see a war crimes court held for Bush and Cheney.
You could never get such a thing passed. What "crimes" were comitted?

Are you going to argue he lied by taking us into war? After almost every other country provided intel that said similar things and Iraq had broken UN violations for nearly 30 years.

The court will throw the book right back at you and say have a nice day.

#### Jimmy Snyder

I also note that the Ibrahim Zapr U'dir film has been edited. You can see evidence of artificial lighting in many of the frames.

#### Jimmy Snyder

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#### LowlyPion

Homework Helper
I also note that the Ibrahim Zapr U'dir film has been edited. You can see evidence of artificial lighting in many of the frames.
I think a couple of frames have been redacted. Convene a commission to study it I say.

Meanwhile poor George. He goes to take a victory lap around the green zone ... just looking for a positive note for his recessional in 37 days and his meander into history and he just gets no respect - surrounded by a 100,000 US troops in a country he wants to think he has liberated and rebuilt - whether they like it or not.

I think about the only person he could beat in an election right now is this Blagofavitch in Illinois.

#### schroder

I think this incident will be THE defining moment for the Bush legacy and the Iraq war, similar to way the image of the helicopters taking off from the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon back in 1975 defined the Vietnam war. The image of GWB ducking from shoes thrown by an irate Iraqi just sums it all up: failure.

#### LowlyPion

Homework Helper
I think this incident will be THE defining moment for the Bush legacy and the Iraq war, similar to way the image of the helicopters taking off from the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon back in 1975 defined the Vietnam war. The image of GWB ducking from shoes thrown by an irate Iraqi just sums it all up: failure.
Too bad Old Quick-Trigger Cheney wasn't there to get some of the love as well.
A picture of him ducking behind Bush ... ? priceless.

#### BobG

Homework Helper
I think this incident will be THE defining moment for the Bush legacy and the Iraq war, similar to way the image of the helicopters taking off from the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon back in 1975 defined the Vietnam war. The image of GWB ducking from shoes thrown by an irate Iraqi just sums it all up: failure.
Yes, it will.

I thought the incident was funny from the context of American culture, but I agree with Cyrus that the incident was a lot larger in Iraqi culture.

It was a huge insult and not the first: Shoe throwing

One insult that many Americans would find puzzling was Saddam Hussein putting a mural of Bush 41 right inside the front door of Baghdad's Rashid Hotel. The insult lie in the fact that no visiting VIPs could avoid stepping on Bush 41's face when they entered the hotel.

The shoe insult is why so many Bush 43 pictures in Iraq have shoes nailed to them - something else Americans would find so puzzling the news media doesn't bother to show them.

Middle Easterners probably find it a little puzzling that the news stations keep showing replays over and over, just because it's so entertaining to watch Bush ducking shoes. I expect an internet game based on this within days - similar in spirit to the internet game, "Slap Hillary", that was going around years ago.

#### LightbulbSun

I still think the Iraq War is going to be the silver lining of Bush's administration. I can see it prospering as a democratic nation within the next decade.

#### mheslep

Gold Member
...What in the h-e-double hockey sticks is he there for in the first place? The economy is melting down domestically and Dubya is jetting to Iraq? ...
Because there are ~130,000 US troops there and he's the commander in chief; it means a great deal to those guys. For the same reason he went to Afghanistan the next day.

#### LowlyPion

Homework Helper
Because there are ~130,000 US troops there and he's the commander in chief; it means a great deal to those guys. For the same reason he went to Afghanistan the next day.
Yeah, another one of those Mission Accomplished moments that Rove likes to stage for the guy?

Sure he's Commander and Chief and if he really wanted to see the troops he didn't need a Press Conference to do it either. I'd say this is a man on Legacy Tour right now. Barney Frank is right. We really are a President short at the moment. And in light of circumstances and the hang over the country is saddled with now I think it would surely have been better if we hadn't had this one at all.

Apparently he's moving to the Dallas area next month so he can be close to his library planning at SMU. This is his idea of community service after leaving office?

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