Bush in Baghdad - 2 Shoes, Size 10

[tchitt]

Yeah, noone's defending the reporter here... He isn't even an American... who cares? I understand your point, Cyrus, but why are your panties in a bunch over some random Iraqi journalist?

I mean to some this may be funny, others will shake their heads... but I doubt anything of real consequence will come from this. It's a sign of the times, not a part of the problem.

 

[Cyrus]

Yeah, noone's defending the reporter here... He isn't even an American... who cares? I understand your point, Cyrus, but why are your panties in a bunch over some random Iraqi journalist?

I mean to some this may be funny, others will shake their heads... but I doubt anything of real consequence will come from this. It's a sign of the times, not a part of the problem.

Edit: Misread what you wrote.

 

[cristo]

but given the way the president seems to be smirking and taking it in stride, i wouldn't be surprised if he tries to work in some kind of pardon for the guy on his way out.

What do you mean "work in some kind of pardon"? I wasn't aware that this incident happened on US soil, where the president has power.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

^2

That post floored me, jimmy!

Thanks. I'm never too proud to steal other peoples' ideas and so I will add that witnesses (nose-witnesses?) said they smelled an odor coming from the sandy dune.

 

[Alfi]

The controversy won't start till it gets leaked that they're both left foot shoes. ;)Unprofessional or not, I'm glad somebody did something to demonstrate the dislike for Bush.
I for one, would like to see a war crimes court held for Bush and Cheney.
Throw a book at em instead of shoes.

 

[Cyrus]

I for one, would like to see a war crimes court held for Bush and Cheney.

You could never get such a thing passed. What "crimes" were comitted?

Are you going to argue he lied by taking us into war? After almost every other country provided intel that said similar things and Iraq had broken UN violations for nearly 30 years.

The court will throw the book right back at you and say have a nice day.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I also note that the Ibrahim Zapr U'dir film has been edited. You can see evidence of artificial lighting in many of the frames.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

The US troops should put this guy on IED detection detail. MF'er.

I take it that we cannot count on your support for http://www.cals.wisc.edu/ecals/2007/04/26/shoes-for-iraq/".

 

[LowlyPion]

I also note that the Ibrahim Zapr U'dir film has been edited. You can see evidence of artificial lighting in many of the frames.

I think a couple of frames have been redacted. Convene a commission to study it I say.

Meanwhile poor George. He goes to take a victory lap around the green zone ... just looking for a positive note for his recessional in 37 days and his meander into history and he just gets no respect - surrounded by a 100,000 US troops in a country he wants to think he has liberated and rebuilt - whether they like it or not.

I think about the only person he could beat in an election right now is this Blagofavitch in Illinois.

 

[schroder]

I think this incident will be THE defining moment for the Bush legacy and the Iraq war, similar to way the image of the helicopters taking off from the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon back in 1975 defined the Vietnam war. The image of GWB ducking from shoes thrown by an irate Iraqi just sums it all up: failure.

 

[LowlyPion]

I think this incident will be THE defining moment for the Bush legacy and the Iraq war, similar to way the image of the helicopters taking off from the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon back in 1975 defined the Vietnam war. The image of GWB ducking from shoes thrown by an irate Iraqi just sums it all up: failure.

Too bad Old Quick-Trigger Cheney wasn't there to get some of the love as well.
A picture of him ducking behind Bush ... ? priceless.

 

[BobG]

I think this incident will be THE defining moment for the Bush legacy and the Iraq war, similar to way the image of the helicopters taking off from the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon back in 1975 defined the Vietnam war. The image of GWB ducking from shoes thrown by an irate Iraqi just sums it all up: failure.

Yes, it will.

I thought the incident was funny from the context of American culture, but I agree with Cyrus that the incident was a lot larger in Iraqi culture.

It was a huge insult and not the first: Shoe throwing

One insult that many Americans would find puzzling was Saddam Hussein putting a mural of Bush 41 right inside the front door of Baghdad's Rashid Hotel. The insult lie in the fact that no visiting VIPs could avoid stepping on Bush 41's face when they entered the hotel.

The shoe insult is why so many Bush 43 pictures in Iraq have shoes nailed to them - something else Americans would find so puzzling the news media doesn't bother to show them.

Middle Easterners probably find it a little puzzling that the news stations keep showing replays over and over, just because it's so entertaining to watch Bush ducking shoes. I expect an internet game based on this within days - similar in spirit to the internet game, "Slap Hillary", that was going around years ago.

 

[LightbulbSun]

I still think the Iraq War is going to be the silver lining of Bush's administration. I can see it prospering as a democratic nation within the next decade.

 

[mheslep]

...What in the h-e-double hockey sticks is he there for in the first place? The economy is melting down domestically and Dubya is jetting to Iraq? ...

Because there are ~130,000 US troops there and he's the commander in chief; it means a great deal to those guys. For the same reason he went to Afghanistan the next day.

 

[LowlyPion]

Because there are ~130,000 US troops there and he's the commander in chief; it means a great deal to those guys. For the same reason he went to Afghanistan the next day.

Yeah, another one of those Mission Accomplished moments that Rove likes to stage for the guy?

Sure he's Commander and Chief and if he really wanted to see the troops he didn't need a Press Conference to do it either. I'd say this is a man on Legacy Tour right now. Barney Frank is right. We really are a President short at the moment. And in light of circumstances and the hang over the country is saddled with now I think it would surely have been better if we hadn't had this one at all.

Apparently he's moving to the Dallas area next month so he can be close to his library planning at SMU. This is his idea of community service after leaving office?

 

[LowlyPion]

Monday, Dec. 15, 2008 11:50 EST
Shoe-thrower's brother steps up

Maythem al-Zaidi, the 28-year-old brother of Muntader al-Zaidi, the man who threw his shoes at President Bush during a Sunday press conference, has spoken up to explain and defend his brother's actions. From the New York Times:

Hitting someone with a shoe is a particularly strong rebuke in Iraqi culture. Although the president was uninjured, the incident overshadowed media coverage of the trip in the Arab world. And it has transformed Muntader al-Zaidi into a symbolic figure in the debate about the American military’s presence in Iraq.

Maythem al-Zaidi said his brother had not planned to throw his shoes prior to Sunday. “He was provoked when Mr. Bush said [during the news conference] this is his farewell gift to the Iraqi people,” he said. A colleague of Muntader al-Zaidi’s at al-Baghdadiya satellite channel, however, said the correspondent had been “planning for this from a long time. He told me that his dream is to hit Bush with shoes,” said the man, who would not give his name.

Muntader al-Zaidi appears to have a long-standing dislike of the United States presence in Iraq. He used to finish his reports by saying he was in "the occupied Baghdad." His brother said that he hates the occupation so strongly that he canceled his wedding, saying: "I will marry when the occupation is over . . ."

Muntader al-Zaidi was the head of the student union under Saddam Hussein and he earned a diploma as a mechanic from a technical institute before becoming a journalist. He worked at al-Qasim al-Mushterek newspaper, an Iraqi daily founded after the 2003 invasion, then he joined al-Diyar satellite channel, an Iraqi channel founded after the war. Two years later, he joined al-Baghdadiya satellite channel, another Iraqi channel, which is based in Cairo.

Maythem al-Zaidi contacted a judge to ask him if what his brother did is a crime under Iraqi law. The judge told him that he might serve two years in prison or pay a fine for insulting a president of foreign country unless Mr. Bush withdrew the case. “If they manage to imprison Muntader, there are millions of him all over Iraq and the Arab world,” Maythem al-Zaidi said.

Maythem al-Zaidi said has been contacted from about 100 Iraqi and foreign lawyers offering their services free of charge — including Saddam Hussein’s lawyer Khalil al-Dulaymi. When asked if he will accept Mr. al-Dulaymi’s services, he replied, “Why not, we are all Iraqis.”

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/?last_story=/politics/war_room/2008/12/15/shoe_brother/

 

[AhmedEzz]

Hello there,

I was surprised this morning when I read this in the newspaper and I couldn't help myself from laughing. The act is very symbolic rather than an assault; he didn't want to hurt him, he wanted to express his deepest disrespect and disgust for Bush. I believe that after what Bush did to Iraq and the Iraqi people, give anyone a chance of throwing a shoe at him (or do anything to express his feelings) & put aside the fear of torture and death, he would not hesitate to do it.
Nonetheless, I don't support this act but I sympathize with the reporter.
I would also like to say that when the reporter did this, he certainly meant Bush.

 

[devil-fire]

No, Art. A journalist does not go around trying to harm heads of state. There is no excuse for what he did. NONE. NOT ONE. NONE.

I think that when a person sees streets full of their countrymen's blood, guts and body parts regularly for several years, they would lose respect for the sanctity of the leader of the country that perpetrated such gore.

"excuse"? I don't think anyone is saying or implying that the shoe-thrower should be excused of any reasonable consequences of his actions such as losing his job, being condemned by bush supporters, being put on the terrorist watch list, etc. However, some people are saying that the consequences won't make the person regret his actions

Did Bush personally tell you this?

Folks: Please stop making statements as if they were matter of fact.

Generally the only "facts" in politics are history. For example it isn't a fact that if a terrorist set off a nuke in down town New York that it would change American foreign policy, but claiming that it isn't a "matter of fact" won't do much to convince people it wouldn't happen.

As much as I don't like Bush, no one. NO ONE, is allowed to assult the president. Under no circumstancse. Ever.

What does this have to do with anything? Are you implying that there should be some kind of repercussions for assaulting Bush because of his special status as president?

 

[BobG]

Middle Easterners probably find it a little puzzling that the news stations keep showing replays over and over, just because it's so entertaining to watch Bush ducking shoes. I expect an internet game based on this within days - similar in spirit to the internet game, "Slap Hillary", that was going around years ago.

Well, this is a pretty http://www.t-enterprise.co.uk/flashgame/playgame.aspx?id=bushbootcamp . They obviously adapted it from something else. You try to shoot the shoes before they hit Pres Bush. You should try to avoid shooting Pres Bush, too.

This is one has no challenge to it at all. Bush does have a dumb expression, though.http://www.jdr.ma/game/index.html

 

[Proton Soup]

What do you mean "work in some kind of pardon"? I wasn't aware that this incident happened on US soil, where the president has power.

that's why i used the weasel words "some kind". however, note that "sovereign" is also a weasel word. native american nations are also sovereign, but we don't let them grow hemp on their own land. neither do we yet let the iraqis do anything they want. we put up a public front, but it's just PR. they are occupied territory, just like the japanese were, and we'll hand back full control in good time.

 

[Alfi]

You could never get such a thing passed. What "crimes" were comitted?
Are you going to argue he lied by taking us into war?

Yep, I would. I believe lies were told and actions were taken that should not have happened.
A full inquest would satisfy me.
Could be shoes would not be that last thing thrown at him.

 

[cristo]

Yep, I would. I believe lies were told and actions were taken that should not have happened.
A full inquest would satisfy me.
Could be shoes would not be that last thing thrown at him.

Stick to the topic being discussed here. This comment is massively offtopic, and continuing to discuss it will inevitably result in this thread being locked.

 

[WarPhalange]

It would have been funny if Bush threw his own shoes back at the guy.

 

[drankin]

It would have been funny if Bush threw his own shoes back at the guy.

I'm trying to think of a president that would do that... maybe Reagan would have?

 

[LowlyPion]

I'm trying to think of a president that would do that... maybe Reagan would have?

Likely Andrew Jackson would have waded into the audience and beat the guy over the head with the shoes he threw.

There was an assassination attempt against Jackson and the gun misfired and he went after the man and had to be restrained. But then again he survived a few duels. Not many modern Presidents deal with issues of honor in that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Attack_and_assassination_attempt

 

[BobG]

I wonder what kind of shoes they were. A pair of Nunn Bush Lincolns would have been a good choice.

From the reviews, it takes a while to break them in, but they last forever and even women like them.

 

[tchitt]

Barney Frank is right.

L.O.L.

Apparently he's moving to the Dallas area next month so he can be close to his library planning at SMU. This is his idea of community service after leaving office?

I'm so tired of all you cry babies spouting off about how HORRIBLE dubya is at every aspect of reality and taking any chance to anonymously laugh out loud at him and crap on everything he's done, doing, or will do. What would you rather he do? The POTUS is pretty much the highest form of community service any given citizen could perform.

I'm just pointing this out so before you shoot back at me with something like "YEAH, WELL HE DID A BAD JOB THO.", just save it... this isn't the topic and that topic's been done to death. Everywhere.

I'm trying to think of a president that would do that... maybe Reagan would have?

Totally. Reagan was the man.

 

[seycyrus]

I've seen reports that the shoe-thrower is not in the best shape. broken ribs and such. Any ideas on whether he received such treatment from the US or Iraqui forces?

 

[BobG]

I've seen reports that the shoe-thrower is not in the best shape. broken ribs and such. Any ideas on whether he received such treatment from the US or Iraqui forces?

He left a trail of blood behind as he was dragged out of the room, so it's possible all (or at least most) of the injuries were sustained while he was being subdued. Whether it was Secret Service or Iraqi security that subdued him, I couldn't tell you.

A little extreme for throwing a shoe, but security isn't going to be too worried about an attacker's health when they're protecting a head of state from a threat (possible assassination would probably be an exaggeration in this instance, but an attack is an attack).

 

[devil-fire]

Could someone link to reports of the guy getting beat up and leaving a trail of blood?

I expect it would be the Iraqi security, if anyone. It would make the president look like a thug if the secret service beat someone to a pulp just as a matter of spite.