Buy a sport bike sometime in the next year

[franznietzsche]

Ok, I'm looking to buy a sport bike sometime in the next year (possibly two years, depending on university financials, some things have to come first afterall). I intend for it to be my primary transport 80-90% of the time. Incidently, it will be my first bike, and no I don't have the license yet. I'll probably do some learning on my dad's chopper to get my license upgraded.

I'm looking for suggestions on possible choices. The only decision I've made so far, is that I'm fairly certain I want a sport bike, not a chopper. I've looked at the Honda CBR600F4i, but that seems a little pricey for a first bike, but from what I've read it looks like its worth the money. I've also looked over the Suzuki Katana 600/750 (I have no preference on motor size, though I don't know if I'd be happy with something as small as say the Ninja 250). There's also the Ninja 500R, or even the BMW F650 CS (cheaper than that Honda).

I'm mostly looking for recommendations and comments. Again, keep in mind that it will be my first bike. Price, and ease for a beginner are my primary concerns.

 

[Cyrus]

Suzuki GSXR-600 or Honda CBR.

My friend totaled his CBR and just got a new black and silver GSXR.

Be safe but have fun.

 

[JasonRox]

Personally, if this your first bike, I doubt you can handle a 600 or higher sports bike! Or even afford in the INSURANCE!

I'd say go with a Ninja 250. I've never driven one of those, but I'm sure they would be fine. They top out at like 160km/h (not 100% sure though).

Definitely do not get a 600 for your first bike. That's like suicide.

 

[franznietzsche]

Personally, if this your first bike, I doubt you can handle a 600 or higher sports bike! Or even afford in the INSURANCE!

I'm paying insurance on a Sebring convertible now, so as long as its no worse, I'll be ok (I have no idea actually, haven't looked into that end of it, glad you brought it up though).

I'd say go with a Ninja 250. I've never driven one of those, but I'm sure they would be fine. They top out at like 160km/h (not 100% sure though).

Definitely do not get a 600 for your first bike. That's like suicide.

Aside from the weight, how so ( I just checked the katana closer, its a wopping 458 lbs, that's a bit much)? I've checked through user reviews, and it seems a fair number of people start out on 600s.

As a side note, I'm a little over 6'3" (190 cm) so riding comfort may/may not be an issue. Just another thing I'd thought I'd mention.

I've really just started looking into this with any seriousness in the past week.

 

[JasonRox]

I'm paying insurance on a Sebring convertible now, so as long as its no worse, I'll be ok (I have no idea actually, haven't looked into that end of it, glad you brought it up though).



Aside from the weight, how so ( I just checked the katana closer, its a wopping 458 lbs, that's a bit much)? I've checked through user reviews, and it seems a fair number of people start out on 600s.

As a side note, I'm a little over 6'3" (190 cm) so riding comfort may/may not be an issue. Just another thing I'd thought I'd mention.

I've really just started looking into this with any seriousness in the past week.

I still wouldn't be surprised if it cost you more on insurance than your car.

It's freaking expensive, especially for first year riding. It probably cuts by 40% after the first year though.

 

[Cyrus]

Franz, get a 600 unless you want cars riding your rear tire. My friend started with a 600. A 600 is fine..

Insurance is not bad in the US Jason. Actually, my friend told me insurance is higher for a 600 because most people start with one. Its lower for a 750. I don't know if its true or not. If it is, get a 750. But 750 or 1000cc is quite a lot of power.

 

[franznietzsche]

Franz, get a 600 unless you want cars riding your rear tire. My friend started with a 600. A 600 is fine..

Insurance is not bad in the US Jason. Actually, my friend told me insurance is higher for a 600 because most people start with one. Its lower for a 750. I don't know if its true or not. If it is, get a 750. But 750 or 1000cc is quite a lot of power.

Its also a lot more money for one that size.

I was leaning towards the Katana (for price mostly) until I saw the weight.

I'll have to look more closely at what the insurance rates would be.

 

[JasonRox]

I have another question.

Are you sure a sports bike is practical for 80-90% of transportation?

Sure it's cool, but I've never met anyone using their bike 90% of the time. Usually like maybe 50% at most and that's not even year round. Sport bikes aren't the most comfortable ride. If they are short trips, then that's ok. When I say short, I mean no longer than 10 minute rides. You can ride longer than that, but it won't be pleasant doing it everyday, back and forth.

Have you looked into 500's?

 

[Kurdt]

Suzuki gs500 is a very good starter.

 

[turbo]

Check with your insurance company before deciding on displacement. There is usually a boost in the premiums at the 600cc level, so a 500 could cost less and save you money every year in insurance premiums. A Buell Blast could be the perfect 1st sport bike. They are very light and powerful, and you'll get around 70 mpg. 492cc making 34 hp at 6500 rpm is pretty darned good in a bike that weighs in at 360#.

 

[scorpa]

Check with your insurance company before deciding on displacement. There is usually a boost in the premiums at the 600cc level, so a 500 could cost less and save you money every year in insurance premiums. A Buell Blast could be the perfect 1st sport bike. They are very light and powerful, and you'll get around 70 mpg. 492cc making 34 hp at 6500 rpm is pretty darned good in a bike that weighs in at 360#.

Buell Blasts are good bikes but depending on how tall you are you might find them a bit small (size wise not powerwise). I am 5'8 and find them way to little. If you get a 600 sportbike don't think that just because it is only a 600 it won't be a big deal...those things go like the devil! They absolutley fly...so have fun but be careful especially while you are getting used to it. I've known a few people who have totalled them off because they have underestimated them (code for being really stupid lol). I'm sure they are very fun bikes just not my style. If you are considering a BMW 650 I would look at those more closely...they are great very versatile bikes. You can get a used Harley Davidson sportster 883 or 1200 for a very good price if you look at the models before the rubber mounted engine was introduced...not really the style you seem to be looking for but it's also something you might want to just look at to see if you would like it or not. Have fun

 

[JasonRox]

Check with your insurance company before deciding on displacement. There is usually a boost in the premiums at the 600cc level, so a 500 could cost less and save you money every year in insurance premiums. A Buell Blast could be the perfect 1st sport bike. They are very light and powerful, and you'll get around 70 mpg. 492cc making 34 hp at 6500 rpm is pretty darned good in a bike that weighs in at 360#.

Yeah, that's the bike I was thinking of. Nice bike too.

 

[franznietzsche]

I have another question.

Are you sure a sports bike is practical for 80-90% of transportation?

Sure it's cool, but I've never met anyone using their bike 90% of the time. Usually like maybe 50% at most and that's not even year round. Sport bikes aren't the most comfortable ride. If they are short trips, then that's ok. When I say short, I mean no longer than 10 minute rides. You can ride longer than that, but it won't be pleasant doing it everyday, back and forth.

Have you looked into 500's?

That sort of thing is exactly why I'm asking. Like I said, I just started looking into this, and it will probably be at least a year before I actually get one (basically, whenever my car finally goes caput).

 

[franznietzsche]

Buell Blasts are good bikes but depending on how tall you are you might find them a bit small (size wise not powerwise). I am 5'8 and find them way to little. If you get a 600 sportbike don't think that just because it is only a 600 it won't be a big deal...those things go like the devil! They absolutley fly...so have fun but be careful especially while you are getting used to it. I've known a few people who have totalled them off because they have underestimated them (code for being really stupid lol). I'm sure they are very fun bikes just not my style. If you are considering a BMW 650 I would look at those more closely...they are great very versatile bikes. You can get a used Harley Davidson sportster 883 or 1200 for a very good price if you look at the models before the rubber mounted engine was introduced...not really the style you seem to be looking for but it's also something you might want to just look at to see if you would like it or not. Have fun

Looking at the Blast, I like it, but the height will probably be an issue (again, I'm 6'3"). I'm not so worried about the power in the 600s, mostly because I'm not a particularly psychotic driver (unlike my cousins, I have yet to wreck the 700cc Raptor, or the 600cc jetskis. Not the same thing, I know, but from experience my tendency has always been to overestimate the power of the vehicle I'm driving, rather than to underestimate it.). I will probably look more closely at the BMW F650.

 

[scorpa]

Looking at the Blast, I like it, but the height will probably be an issue (again, I'm 6'3"). I'm not so worried about the power in the 600s, mostly because I'm not a particularly psychotic driver (unlike my cousins, I have yet to wreck the 700cc Raptor, or the 600cc jetskis. Not the same thing, I know, but from experience my tendency has always been to overestimate the power of the vehicle I'm driving, rather than to underestimate it.). I will probably look more closely at the BMW F650.

A similar bike to the F650 that will be a lot cheaper is the Suzuki Vstrom 600...not nearly as pretty as the 650 but it still has great reviews. I would take the Beemer over the Suzuki though anyday. I'm really not a fan of the japanese brands unless it is for dirtbikes, quads...ect.

 

[franznietzsche]

A similar bike to the F650 that will be a lot cheaper is the Suzuki Vstrom 600...not nearly as pretty as the 650 but it still has great reviews. I would take the Beemer over the Suzuki though anyday. I'm really not a fan of the japanese brands unless it is for dirtbikes, quads...ect.

I am a big fan of yamaha quads. I've had a lot of fun with the Raptor and the Banshee, even with the Warrior (which I nearly took over a cliff once).

 

[berkeman]

Have you taken the MSF class yet? That's a good start, and it gives you some VERY valuable street riding strategies and tips. Cages are dangerous to us bikers.

An F4 or the SV650 would be good initial choices, as long as you exercise some self control with your right hand. I commute all year-round on my sportbike here in Northern California (rain or shine), and I used to go to the racetrack with my sportbike at least twice a year. After I got my first motocross bike, though, I'd rather ride the dirt instead of taking my sportbike to the track. The important thing is to keep the high-speed fun and wheelies and stoppies off the public roads, and get those thrills at a racetrack (school or track day), or in the dirt. If you fall into the trap of riding canyons fast or stunting on the road, you will start to pile up the tickets, and run the risk of a very bad crash.

Oh yeah, I started on a VFR, then rode F3/F4 bikes for a long while, and now have a Buell XB-12R Firebolt.

 

[franznietzsche]

Have you taken the MSF class yet? That's a good start, and it gives you some VERY valuable street riding strategies and tips. Cages are dangerous to us bikers.

No, but I do intend to. Like I said, I just really made the decision to do this in the past week, though I'd been considering it for a few months. And it will still probably be a year before I make a purchase.

An F4 or the SV650 would be good initial choices, as long as you exercise some self control with your right hand. I commute all year-round on my sportbike here in Northern California (rain or shine), and I used to go to the racetrack with my sportbike at least twice a year. After I got my first motocross bike, though, I'd rather ride the dirt instead of taking my sportbike to the track. The important thing is to keep the high-speed fun and wheelies and stoppies off the public roads, and get those thrills at a racetrack (school or track day), or in the dirt. If you fall into the trap of riding canyons fast or stunting on the road, you will start to pile up the tickets, and run the risk of a very bad crash.

I have little intention of doing any sort of stunt riding on public roads. Cops out here have too much time for catching speeders as is.

I'm curious, how long is your commute?

Oh yeah, I started on a VFR, then rode F3/F4 bikes for a long while, and now have a Buell XB-12R Firebolt.

 

[scorpa]

I am a big fan of yamaha quads. I've had a lot of fun with the Raptor and the Banshee, even with the Warrior (which I nearly took over a cliff once).

Oh yeah yamaha quads are great! We used to have a little blaster...not very big but tons of fun! Their dirtbikes are awesome to but I think if I were buying a new one I would go for a Honda or KTM.

 

[berkeman]

I'm curious, how long is your commute?

It's varied over the years, but it's in the range of 35-45 minutes depending on traffic. There have been some days where traffic was backed up for the whole commute for an accident or something, and that can take a bit longer. My daily commute is about 30-40% lane splitting and the rest straight 80mph or so. Slower in the rain, obviously. It takes several years of riding and experience before you should do much rain riding.

 

[turbo]

It takes several years of riding and experience before you should do much rain riding.

I took my motorcycle road test in a wet slushy snow-storm. My buddy and I had to ride our bikes 25 miles each way to get to the examination site, then the MC inspector told us that we couldn't take the road test due to the snow. The other inspector pointed out that we had successfully ridden 25 miles in these very conditions and suggested the the bike inspector should give us our road tests, which he then did. We both passed. I don't make a habit of riding in the snow, but then again, I've had another 35 years to smarten up a bit. When I took the road test, I was young enough to think I was bulletproof.

 

[berkeman]

The other inspector pointed out that we had successfully ridden 25 miles in these very conditions and suggested the the bike inspector should give us our road tests, which he then did. We both passed.

Very impressive. I've ridden my dirtbikes in the snow before, but never on my sportbike.

 

[turbo]

Very impressive. I've ridden my dirtbikes in the snow before, but never on my sportbike.

Keith and I each had Yamaha 350 2-strokes, and we rode them in snow, bombed around in sand-pits, and generally treated them like they were dirt bikes with street tires. Those little bikes were quick!

 

[WhyIsItSo]

As a side note, I'm a little over 6'3" (190 cm) so riding comfort may/may not be an issue. Just another thing I'd thought I'd mention.

I don't think Honda makes it anymore, but if used is an option, consider the VFR 800.

It is sporty, has respectable power, and is stable. Given your size, I might suggest this would be a reasonable combination of features for a new rider. It is about 470Lbs dry, and the seat height is about 32 inches.

It is not a full "crotch rocket" seating position. Sporty, yes, but leaves a little more "stretch room".

You aren't going to win any "Red Light Grand Prix" with one, but it is definitely NOT embarrassing.

The only real downside I can think of would be if you are going to go long distances on it. It does have a lot of vibration (being a V-twin), though not anything like a cruiser. You'll get a bad case of "numb-bum" after a few hours on the highway, and your arms may tingle too :)

At the end of the day, you just can't beat throwing your leg over different bikes and seeing how you like it (or not). Remember too that your short 10 minute test ride won't tell you how you'll feel after riding for two hours.

Later, when you have more experience, you might be able to extrapolate your test ride into what it will feel like after several hours. Several years ago, I considered the Hayabusa. Felt far more stable than I expected, but I could tell I'd be hurting after an all-day ride. I bought a Honda 1100 Blackbird instead. Sure, ride all day, for several days, and you'll hurt, but I knew it was the most comfortable bike for what I wanted, sports-touring.

Good luck, and keep the rubber-side down.

 

[scorpa]

It takes several years of riding and experience before you should do much rain riding.

Unfortunately sometimes you just can't avoid it. I remember being out riding a KLR 650 on a nice sunny day, when all of a sudden dark clouds moved in fast and it just poured. About 5 minutes later in the middle of nowhere I ran out of gas...thank god for reserve!

 

[Ascetic Anchorite]

it will be my first bike, and no I don't have the license yet.

Get one of these engine kits for a (any) bicycle:

http://www.bikeengines.com/brianbike5.jpg

http://www.bikeengines.com/vrobin.jpg

http://www.bikeengines.com/

250 - 300mpg at 30mph, and you get to peddle too so you will retain your fitness and health, also good in case the engine conks out.

No license needed in most states, no registration, tax, etc.

 

[franznietzsche]

Get one of these engine kits for a (any) bicycle:

http://www.bikeengines.com/brianbike5.jpg

http://www.bikeengines.com/vrobin.jpg

http://www.bikeengines.com/

250 - 300mpg at 30mph, and you get to peddle too so you will retain your fitness and health, also good in case the engine conks out.

No license needed in most states, no registration, tax, etc.

I have to say, that's not going to cut it on my 20+ mile commutes (I have several, different ones depending on the time of year, and yes the shortest is 20 miles, the longest about 75. Each way).

edit: I have had bicycles, many. When I said bike, i meant motorcycle.

 

[scorpa]

I can't believe I forgot about the SV 650...that would probably be the ideal bike for you to start on. If there are any bike shows coming up I would definitely go to one, very nice to be able to see all the bikes in one place.

Oh yeah, I started on a VFR, then rode F3/F4 bikes for a long while, and now have a Buell XB-12R Firebolt.

How do you like the Buell? Those are pretty cool bikes. Isn't the oil in the swingarm and gas in the frame or something like that?

 

[berkeman]

How do you like the Buell? Those are pretty cool bikes. Isn't the oil in the swingarm and gas in the frame or something like that?

Yeah, and the front brake disk is mounted on the wheel rim, not on the inner hub. There are several unusual features like that. They're okay, but I bought the bike because I liked the idea of having an American sportbike. Neat concept.

Overall I like the Buell, but it took a while to get used to it. It's about the same size and weight as my 600F4, and it has about the same horsepower rating (around 95-100hp). But it has twice the torque and half the redline of my F4, so it takes some getting used to. Plus, when you hit the rev limiter, it's like hitting the brakes -- pretty obnoxious. So you spend a lot more attention during hard acceleration to listen for the sound of approaching redline. It's a little easier to wheelie than my F4, but a little harder to stoppie (all on private property, BTW, no stunting on public roads). The stock tires have an obnoxious wide/flat profile that makes turning-in a chore, so I was happy to wear those out quickly and switch to more standard D208 tires.

 

[franznietzsche]

I can't believe I forgot about the SV 650...that would probably be the ideal bike for you to start on. If there are any bike shows coming up I would definitely go to one, very nice to be able to see all the bikes in one place.

What do you think about the GS500F?

 

[rocketboy]

I was out for lunch with my coworkers today and we were sitting on the patio at a restaurant and i hear a screech of tired. I look up and see a man on a motorcycle get t-boned by a car... bike spun, the guy flew off about 10 feet and didn't move for about 5 minutes, and even then all he could do was lay there and wave and move one of his legs. He was taken away in an ambulance. Scary ****.

 

[Cyrus]

Damn...

 

[slugcountry]

Ok, I'm looking to buy a sport bike sometime in the next year (possibly two years, depending on university financials, some things have to come first afterall). I intend for it to be my primary transport 80-90% of the time. Incidently, it will be my first bike, and no I don't have the license yet. I'll probably do some learning on my dad's chopper to get my license upgraded.

I'm looking for suggestions on possible choices. The only decision I've made so far, is that I'm fairly certain I want a sport bike, not a chopper. I've looked at the Honda CBR600F4i, but that seems a little pricey for a first bike, but from what I've read it looks like its worth the money. I've also looked over the Suzuki Katana 600/750 (I have no preference on motor size, though I don't know if I'd be happy with something as small as say the Ninja 250). There's also the Ninja 500R, or even the BMW F650 CS (cheaper than that Honda).

I'm mostly looking for recommendations and comments. Again, keep in mind that it will be my first bike. Price, and ease for a beginner are my primary concerns.

Do NOT buy anything faster than a 250 for your first bike.

You will find this answer time and time again if you go asking bike riders.

When you buy a bike it is like a contract between you and the machine - the motorcycle provides the performance, and you sure as **** better bring the skill or it WILL destroy you.


http://reviews.ebay.com/Form-Equals...Not-Beginner-Bikes_W0QQugidZ10000000000978680

 

[slugcountry]

I was out for lunch with my coworkers today and we were sitting on the patio at a restaurant and i hear a screech of tired. I look up and see a man on a motorcycle get t-boned by a car... bike spun, the guy flew off about 10 feet and didn't move for about 5 minutes, and even then all he could do was lay there and wave and move one of his legs. He was taken away in an ambulance. Scary ****.

yeah I was getting onto the onramp right near the cow palace in oakland, about a year ago now, and on the other side of the freeway there's a guy on a sportbike just hauling ass, right as he passes me (going the other way) i see a car next to him change lanes without looking or blinking - right into the bike rider... the last thing i saw in my rear view mirror was his body flailing in the air at 90+ mph.

 

[turbo]

franznietzsche, have you spent some time in the saddles of various sportbikes, cruisers, etc? Some people (myself included) get pretty cramped riding a sports bike for an hour or two, while the more vertical spine-orientation of a cruiser let's me ride all day in comfort. If your commutes are short, a sport bike may be OK, but with your height, you may want to try a cruiser with forward controls.

I love my Softail, but they are pricey, and you don't want to commit to that for a first bike. You may find that one of the Japanese-made cruisers fits your budget and your frame. Honda's Shadow line comes to mind, but there are others, and they come up on the used market quite frequently. Others include the Yamaha V Star and the Kawasaki Vulcan line. These Japanese bikes do not hold their values like the Harleys, and you can often find used ones pretty cheap - just get the bike checked out by a mechanic before buying it, and beware that there may be hidden wear and damage. If my idiot neighbor survives long enough to sell his sport bike, I pity the person who buys it. Many times, I have heard him start it up and red-line it in neutral immediately before it has had time to build any oil pressure. Obviously not a candidate for engineering school - married with children and still living with his parents. I don't think he'll live long enough to sell it, though, because this road has some significant blind curves and blind hills (old county road) and he rips through them at very high speeds. The problem is that these woods are full of deer, moose, and wild turkeys. The first time he rounds the blind curve to the east of here and finds a doe, a couple of yearlings, and a fawn or two in the road, with no time to brake and no good opening to get through, we'll be mopping him off the pavement. I hit a yearling with my truck a couple of miles from here. I braked as hard as possible as soon as I saw the first deer coming out of the brush, and I had not managed to come to a complete stop when the last one decided to cross. He broke my headlight and bug deflector, folded the hood, broke both wipers (although not the windshield), and managed to get up and hobble off on 3 legs. A person on a bike would not be so lucky.

 

[franznietzsche]

franznietzsche, have you spent some time in the saddles of various sportbikes, cruisers, etc? Some people (myself included) get pretty cramped riding a sports bike for an hour or two, while the more vertical spine-orientation of a cruiser let's me ride all day in comfort. If your commutes are short, a sport bike may be OK, but with your height, you may want to try a cruiser with forward controls.

As I said above, I just started seriously considering this, and don't even plan to make a purchase for another year probably. I'm fairly certain I don't want a cruiser. A standard maybe. As a side note, its a little meaningless to talk about short commutes. My commute in New Mexico is 20 miles, I consider that short. My commute in Los Angeles is 75, which I consider mediocre. In San Luis Obispo, I have no commute, for now.

If my idiot neighbor survives long enough to sell his sport bike, I pity the person who buys it. Many times, I have heard him start it up and red-line it in neutral immediately before it has had time to build any oil pressure. Obviously not a candidate for engineering school - married with children and still living with his parents. I don't think he'll live long enough to sell it, though, because this road has some significant blind curves and blind hills (old county road) and he rips through them at very high speeds.

Rest assured, I don't plan to being doing anything stupid like that. I'm more than willing to get my high speed thrills at the track, and NOT the road.

Do NOT buy anything faster than a 250 for your first bike.

You will find this answer time and time again if you go asking bike riders.

When you buy a bike it is like a contract between you and the machine - the motorcycle provides the performance, and you sure as **** better bring the skill or it WILL destroy you.

My only problems with the 250, are dealing with California freeways (or worse, New Mexico freeways), and my height. But I haven't completely closed off the idea of the Ninja 250. I do intend to look more closely at everything when I get closer to making an actual purchase (again, probably a year away). Interesting that you link that, as the bike I'm leaning towards (purely for the moment), the GS500, is one of the ones he recommends. What is most likely at this point, would be to buy a used 250, and keep for six months to a year(likely riding every day), before upgrading to probably the GS500.

 

[berkeman]

I don't think you will like the Ninja 250, or even the Nija 500 for that matter. They are way underpowered, which can be dangerous in itself when you need to maneuver quickly to avoid a bad situation. When you take the Beginner MSF class, you will probably be on their loaner 250 bikes. I rode a friend's Ninja 500 once (he wanted me to make sure he had it set up correctly), and the power was very disappointing.

Glad to hear that you plan to keep the fast stuff on the track and off the public roads. Smart guy.

 

[franznietzsche]

I don't think you will like the Ninja 250, or even the Nija 500 for that matter. They are way underpowered, which can be dangerous in itself when you need to maneuver quickly to avoid a bad situation.

As I said, that is my concern. Southern California freeways can go from sixty to zero in less than a quarter mile (I have had to slam on the brakes in my car on the 405 at the sepulveda pass like that before), and back up to speed just as suddenly. New Mexico freeways are even scarier.

Any opinion on the GS500?

 

[berkeman]

Any opinion on the GS500?

Sorry, I'm no help on that bike. Like I mentioned earlier, I was happy with my 600F3/F4 bikes, and I was pretty impressed with the SV650s at Jason Pridmore's STAR racetrack school. Several of the instructors were on them (Jason's school is sponsored by Suzuki), and they plain hauled the mail.

 

[slugcountry]

I don't think you will like the Ninja 250, or even the Nija 500 for that matter. They are way underpowered, which can be dangerous in itself when you need to maneuver quickly to avoid a bad situation. When you take the Beginner MSF class, you will probably be on their loaner 250 bikes. I rode a friend's Ninja 500 once (he wanted me to make sure he had it set up correctly), and the power was very disappointing.

Glad to hear that you plan to keep the fast stuff on the track and off the public roads. Smart guy.

Hi berke, while its true that this IS a problem for the ninja 500, the 250 weighs significantly less, and accelerates quite nicely (i do wonder if the gs500 exhibits the same problem)

 

[berkeman]

I just looked up the Suzuki GS500, and it's got around 40hp:

http://www.mcreports.com/Pages/Indivbikes/Suzuki/GS500E.html

40hp is pretty low for commuting, IMO. Staying out of cage blind spots is an important key to riding well and surviving, and about half of the time you need to use acceleration to get out of the blind spot.

But, different strokes for different folks. Hopefully franz will get to try out a couple of the bikes we've been suggesting before he makes his purchase.

 

[Cyrus]

Arg. I just realized you want to drive this thing every day on the beltway. You mighttttttttt want to think twice about that. Living is a nice thing you know. People can't drive for crap, and personally I would *never* use a bike that much. I would take it out for fun on quiet days and open it up.

Taking it on the road like that is suicide!

People drive like *idiots* Bikes are for luxury, not for trying to save money on gas or driving daily!

 

[berkeman]

Arg. I just realized you want to drive this thing every day on the beltway. You mighttttttttt want to think twice about that. Living is a nice thing you know. People can't drive for crap, and personally I would *never* use a bike that much. I would take it out for fun on quiet days and open it up.

Taking it on the road like that is suicide!

People drive like *idiots* Bikes are for luxury, not for trying to save money on gas or driving daily!

Not when you have commutes like those here in Silicon Valley or down in SoCal. Lane splitting is generally allowed here in Cali, and the commutes can be plain intolerable in a cage.

There are definitely a lot of tricks to riding reasonable safely. You learn the basic tricks and strategies in the MSF class, and I've got a few more advanced safety videos that I've worn out watching. And as you ride more, you figure out even more advanced strategies, and notice things that you should do in specialized situations.

I do recommend wearing lots of gear to protect you in the event of a crash, though. I like the Aerostitch riding suits (with all the optional pads), quality full-face helmet, gloves with gauntlets, and good riding boots. I think I'm approaching about 150,000 miles of performance commuting (and over 1000 miles on racetracks), with no bike-car impacts. I've managed to low-side a couple of times because of my own misjudgements, but my gear kept me from getting hurt.

 

[Cyrus]

Dont you guys have any public transportation systems like the metro train?

I can tell you one thing, people in DC can NOT drive worth damn.

 

[franznietzsche]

Arg. I just realized you want to drive this thing every day on the beltway.

Well, to be perfectly accurate, I only commute in LA 3-4 weeks out of the year anymore (and that much only for another year or two, which I may not even have the bike before then), and NM for 3 months out of the year.

You mighttttttttt want to think twice about that. Living is a nice thing you know. People can't drive for crap, and personally I would *never* use a bike that much. I would take it out for fun on quiet days and open it up.

Taking it on the road like that is suicide!

People drive like *idiots* Bikes are for luxury, not for trying to save money on gas or driving daily!

Life is a luxury, I intend to enjoy it. Besides, the only luxury item I allow myself is the vehicle I drive, currently my convertible, which doesn't have too many miles left to go on it. But the reason for me starting to plan for this a year ahead is just that, to be as safe about it as possible.

 

[Cyrus]

Yeah, you can be as safe as you like. It only takes 1 time for some idiot in the car next to you to not pay attention and your in a wheel chair.

It's your call, but personally Id stay far away from using a bike as a daily driver. I've seen bikers being tailgated by idiots in SUV's. All sorts of stuff that makes your blood boil. No thanks, I like to be in a metal cage when another 2000lb car hits me.

 

[franznietzsche]

Not when you have commutes like those here in Silicon Valley or down in SoCal. Lane splitting is generally allowed here in Cali, and the commutes can be plain intolerable in a cage.

Very much agreed.

There are definitely a lot of tricks to riding reasonable safely. You learn the basic tricks and strategies in the MSF class, and I've got a few more advanced safety videos that I've worn out watching. And as you ride more, you figure out even more advanced strategies, and notice things that you should do in specialized situations.

I do recommend wearing lots of gear to protect you in the event of a crash, though. I like the Aerostitch riding suits (with all the optional pads), quality full-face helmet, gloves with gauntlets, and good riding boots. I think I'm approaching about 150,000 miles of performance commuting (and over 1000 miles on racetracks), with no bike-car impacts. I've managed to low-side a couple of times because of my own misjudgements, but my gear kept me from getting hurt.

Absolutely. Thats another thing on my list of things to consider carefully and thoroughly. Low-side?

i Dont you guys have any public transportation systems like the metro train?

I can tell you one thing, people in DC can NOT drive worth damn.

When I work in LA, in any given day, I'm as likely as not to drive across the entire county multiple times to several locations. Even if we had it, which we don't, it wouldn't be feasible for me. I drive as much as 400 miles per day (though, the norm is about 200 for me) when I'm working down there.

in NM, it just doesn't exist (at least not out to where I'm staying), 20 miles from all other civilization in every direction.

 

[berkeman]

Dont you guys have any public transportation systems like the metro train?

In Silicon Valley, there are a few public transit lines (busses, Amtrack trains, Light Rail) that can work for some people (who live along the lines). And there are the BART trains for getting into San Francisco and Oakland. But from the East Bay down to San Jose, there isn't any real practical alternative.

At least back when my commute was from the East Bay over the Dumbarton Bridge to Palo Alto, I was able to ride my road (pedal) bike a couple times a week during the summer. It was about an hour each way, plus the noontime swim workouts. Those were the good days!

 

[franznietzsche]

Yeah, you can be as safe as you like. It only takes 1 time for some idiot in the car next to you to not pay attention and your in a wheel chair.

It only takes one time in a car too. It only takes one time walking on the sidewalk. I have no intention of spending any part of my life worrying about anything I can't control. If I can control it, I'll do something about it. If I can't, then all I can do is hope for the best. I've got better things to do than worry about things I can't control.

 

[berkeman]

Low-side?

A low-side crash is when you are in a turn and lose traction with your front wheel. That causes the front tire to turn in and slide out, and you fall the short distance to the pavement and start sliding along. It's called the low-side because you fall the short distance to the ground on the side that you are leaning on. Low-side crashes generally don't hurt much, as long as you don't hit anything before you stop, and as long as you don't get run over, obviously.

A high-side crash generally hurts a lot. It usually would happen when you are in a turn and lose traction with your back tire. The back tire starts to slide out, you back off the gas (or brakes) and the tire catches traction, and the bike whips back into you fairly violently. This usually results in you getting launched over the high-side of the bike, which means you fall further and bounce a time or two before you start sliding. You are also on the wrong side of the bike as it chases you down the road.

My low-side crashes have generally happened because I misjudged the amount of traction available, and lost the front end in a turn. You can sometimes save a low-side by getting on the gas (we do this in dirtbike riding a lot), but it just depends on the conditions. My fastest crash was a low-side at about a buck in Turn 5 at Laguna Seca at one of Reg Pridmore's CLASS racetrack schools. Turns out I put about a dozen thermal cycles on my new performance tires before the class date, and that's a bad idea. Maybe one or two thermal cycles (a commute), but not a dozen. You really learn a lot about traction when riding at a racetrack.