Calculating Electron Movement and Energy in Superconducting Loops

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the behavior of electrons in a superconducting loop, particularly in the context of changing magnetic fields and the implications for current and energy calculations. Participants explore the movement of electrons, the nature of induced electric fields, and the characteristics of superconductors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how electrons move in a superconducting loop when an increasing magnetic field induces an electric field, suggesting that current is preserved and inquiring about calculating the energy of electrons using magnetic energy density.
  • Another participant argues that a superconductor has zero resistance, implying that an electric field cannot be induced, and explains that the current will adjust to maintain constant magnetic flux.
  • Several participants express curiosity about the location of electrons in a current-carrying superconducting loop, with one suggesting they would move toward the outer edge due to centripetal force.
  • A participant clarifies that in a superconductor, the current flows along the surfaces due to the expulsion of magnetic fields, challenging the assumption about electron motion and distribution.
  • One participant points out that copper is not a superconductor, which may affect the validity of the initial scenario posed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the nature of electric fields in superconductors and the behavior of electrons within the loop. There is no consensus on the implications of these factors for energy calculations or electron movement.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption that copper is a superconductor, which is incorrect, and the unresolved nature of how electrons behave in the context of superconductivity and magnetic fields.

Razzor7
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Say you have a superconducting loop of copper. If there's an increasing magnetic field through it that induces an E field around the loop, how are the electrons moving when the field stops increasing? As I understand it the current is preserved. Is there some way to calculate the energy possessed by the electrons using the magnetic energy density? Could we take it a step further and calculate the speed that the electrons are moving by the kinetic energy equation? I suspect this a quantum mechanical problem that transcends the classical picture of electrons moving.
 
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Since a superconductor has zero resistance, one cannot induce an E field around it. If one has a changing externally applied magnetic field Bext, the current in the loop will change so that the total magnetic flux remains constant:

<br /> EMF = \frac{d}{dt}\int B \cdot dA = \frac{d}{dt}\int (B_{ext} + B_I) \cdot dA = 0<br />​

where BI is the field due to the coil current I. I will change so that the integral of BI cancels any changes in the integral of Bext.
 
Thanks for that answer. Where are the electrons in a current carrying superconducting loop? It seems like they'd go toward the outer edge, centripetal force supplied by the coulomb attraction.
 
I don't know.
 
Razzor7 said:
Thanks for that answer. Where are the electrons in a current carrying superconducting loop? It seems like they'd go toward the outer edge, centripetal force supplied by the coulomb attraction.
Try to use google. I think I have seen somewhere info about it
 
Razzor7 said:
Thanks for that answer. Where are the electrons in a current carrying superconducting loop? It seems like they'd go toward the outer edge, centripetal force supplied by the coulomb attraction.

Are you asking where are the electrons with respect to the loop, or with respect to the wire they travel through?

A superconductor not only has zero resistivity, but also expels any magnetic field from it. Therefore, any current running through the super conducting wire, which produces a magnetic field, has to be along the surfaces of the wire, because there can be no magnetic field inside the superconductor. So yes, you are correct that all the electrons will be forced to the surface of the wire, but I think you are incorrect in assuming it is due to the circular motion of the electron. I'm also not sure what you mean by "the coulomb attraction" but the electrons would not like gathering all in one concentrated path, and should spread out evenly over the surface of the loop.
 
Razzor7 said:
Say you have a superconducting loop of copper.
BTW, copper is not a superconductor.
 

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