Can a causal or time-like structure emerge without assuming a metric?

[Dale]

Would you like it if I answered via the same info but in my less prfessional way of talking/speech?

100%. Without any doubt or hesitation.

 

[robphy]

@OmniThoughts Please don't post chatbot output here. If any of us wanted to have a conversation with a chatbot then we would just ask them directly.

Probably off-topic, how would one even type an em-dash in the forum software?

 

[renormalize]

I just asked the chatbot to refine my findings into a more professional and much less verbose way to answer the question. Would you like it if I answered via the same info but in my less prfessional way of talking/speech?

@OmniThoughts, by joining this forum you agreed to abide by all the rules stated here:

Thread 'Physics Forums Global Guidelines'

Sep 2, 2003

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Application and...

• Greg Bernhardt
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Feedback and Announcements

• 

In particular:
ChatGPT and AI-generated text

• Posting AI-generated text without attribution is categorically disallowed and will lead to a warning and an eventual permanent ban with continued use.
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Simply put, AI generated answers are explicitly prohibited here. So yes, please formulate your posts using your own words.

 

[OmniThoughts]

Yes a causal or timelike structure can occur without assuming a metric because of the network of relations via cause and effect, since interactions cause propagations from a source at natural speed-limit speeds, and the leave traces that can be observed and measured which enables us to be able to figure parts of the related causal order, it happens/happened naturally no matter if measuring-capable existences exist/existed or never exist/existed.

Everything happening in space sends out energy that travels to us, which/that proves those events happened exactly "when and where" they did. It's proven due to because energy from exploding stars and spinning stars arrive at exact times matching the "however long" distances they traveled. And the energy from the start of the universe caused the galaxies to be where they are today.

Supernova 1987A is an example of the timing of our detectong neutrinos three hours before we saw the light and both the neurinos and the light traveled 168,000 years, without needing to be "observed in order to happen". Pulsars send out energy like clockwork and match general relativity’s predictions to the nanosecond, which proves non-local time is happening without needing to be "observed in order to happen". Galaxies' shapes and locations are the results of how they formed from energy left over from like the beginning of the universe, the galaxies already exist which implies that whatever events caused their shapes/locations/formations happened billions of years ago without needing to be "observed in order to happen".

 

[renormalize]

Yes a causal or timelike structure can occur without assuming a metric because of the network of relations via cause and effect ...

OK, this is a response to the OP's original question about the possible structure underlying classical spacetime. But you then write:

... the galaxies already exist which implies that whatever events caused their shapes/locations/formations happened billions of years ago without needing to be "observed in order to happen".

which reads like a version of the question "Does the moon exist when no one is looking at it?", sometimes raised in debates about the role of the observer in quantum mechanics. Can you be more explicit about how and why this is relevant to the OP's interest in pre-metric structure in classical relativity?

 

[PeterDonis]

the network of relations via cause and effect, since interactions cause propagations from a source at natural speed-limit speeds, and the leave traces that can be observed and measured which enables us to be able to figure parts of the related causal order

How is this different from a Lorentzian metric?