Can a defective DRC on a heat pump cause the fan motor to go bad?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential relationship between a defective Dual Run Capacitor (DRC) and the failure of an outdoor fan motor in a residential heat pump system. Participants explore the mechanics of how a failing capacitor might impact motor performance, including the implications of insufficient capacitance and the operational characteristics of the fan motor.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the symptoms of their heat pump's outdoor fan motor failure, including measurements of capacitance and resistance, and questions whether the defective DRC could have caused the motor to fail.
  • Another participant, identifying as an HVAC technician, suggests that one failure likely caused the other but is uncertain which was the initial failure.
  • A participant references the possibility of the capacitor failing in a short circuit mode, sharing an anecdote about a previous experience with a failed capacitor that tripped an overload relay.
  • Discussion includes a technical explanation of how a failing capacitor can prevent a motor from starting, leading to overheating and potential motor damage.
  • Another participant notes that the fan motor may not have a thermal overload, raising the possibility that repeated cycling of any internal overload could lead to failure.
  • Clarification is provided that the outdoor fan motor is a Permanent Split Capacitor (PSC) type, which does not use a start capacitor, and discusses the implications of this on the motor's operation.
  • One participant expresses intent to purchase a new outdoor fan motor, indicating a practical response to the ongoing issues discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying opinions on the relationship between the defective DRC and the fan motor failure, with some suggesting a causal link while others remain uncertain. There is no consensus on whether the capacitor failure directly caused the motor failure or if other factors were involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various technical aspects of the heat pump system, including the role of the DRC and the characteristics of the fan motor, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the motor's internal protections and the exact nature of the capacitor's failure.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for HVAC technicians, homeowners experiencing similar issues with heat pumps, and individuals interested in the technical workings of motor and capacitor interactions in HVAC systems.

  • #31
Sneaky!
C= Capacitance
A= Amps
V= Volts
k= 2652

C= kA / V
C= k⋅(A/V) - - - (V/A)= R but it's a capacitor so (V/A)= Xc (capacitive reactance)
but it's not (V/A), it is (A/V) . so (A/V)≡ 1/Xc

C= k⋅(1/Xc)
Now (1/2652) = 0.000377
The formula @jim hardy gave for Xc has 377 in the denominator. Your formula has moved the reciprocal of 377 to the numerator, which has the same mathematical effect. The factor of 1 million difference between the two is because your formula gives the result directly in microfarads, whereas jims formula answers in farads.

Nice shortcut.

I see @Averagesupernova types faster than I do.

Cheers,
Tom
 
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  • #32
Aha !

2652 X 2π X 60 = almost a million

copying from Windows calculator
upload_2018-12-19_21-51-33.png
X 2π X 60 = exactly a million

to get from farads to microfarads

If i learn something every day i might know something someday !

old jim
 

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  • #33
fourthindiana said:
Capacitance (MFD)= (Start winding amps X 2652)/Volts from start to run

Tom.G said:
Nice shortcut.

Indeed !
So nice i just had to figure out how a way that i can remember it.
With my scattered brain i'll roll digits

so i wound up back at conductance, the old Mhos trick

##Ohms = \frac{1}{2πfC}##
so ##Mhos = 2πfC##
which means ##C = Mhos X \frac{1}{2πf}##
but that's in Farads
in Microfarads it's ##C = Mhos X \frac{1,000,000}{2πf}##

and since Mhos = Amps/Volts

##C= \frac{Amps}{Volts} X \frac{1.000.000}{2πf}##

and at 60hz, ##\frac{1.000.000}{2πf} = 2652.58...##

hence your ##C = \frac{Amps}{Volts} X 2652## , good to four digits which is probably better than the ammeter.

it's easier for me to just remember C = Mhos/2πf
and that's what i'll do

Thanks, Guys,
for showing this old dog a new trick !

old jim
 
Last edited:
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  • #34
jim hardy said:
Thanks, Guys,
for showing this old dog a new trick !

old jim

You're welcome.
 

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