Medical Can a new location make you perpetually sick?

[Pythagorean]

Ever since my family and I moved to a new country, I notice we've been getting sick a lot. It's not life-threatening and they're common bugs, they're not even bad enough to keep me home from work. Does this mean our like, virus definitions are updating, or something? Or are we just going to be sicker more often in this place than in our home. We're in a way more populated place now and I use public transportation and we have kids going on playdates.

So obviously, I'm getting more exposure. I'm just curious if the immune system eventually adapts to new places like this or if people in some areas just deal with more occurrences of disease.

 

[imabug]

being in a new place means being exposed to bacteria, germs and virii that you've never been exposed to and your immune system hasn't defended against. after a while, once your body has built up its immunity to the local germs, you'll probably find you're not getting sick as often.

 

[Evo]

Probably it's all of the things you mentioned, the more contact you have, the more exposed to contagion you become.

 

[Monique]

Is the new country so different from the one you lived in?

 

[Pythagorean]

More to do with the differences in city, not country: population, diversity, population density, and population turnover are all higher here.

 

[atyy]

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/mace-lab/publications/articles/2011/Barnes_Evol11_TB_Urban_EV.pdf :p

 

[Pythagorean]

nice find!

 

[lisab]

I know (anecdotally) new teachers have one hell of a time their first year. Constant sniffles and sore throat.

 

[atyy]

Do you know it's bugs and not say, an allergy? Austin in Texas is famous for its allergies.

 

[Pythagorean]

I think it's a bug because of the affect on digestive systems. Just a hunch, though. We're definitely in farm country and high pollen days aren't much fun for the wife, but they don't seem to bother me much.

 

[Bobbywhy]

I've lived and worked in twelve different countries in Europe, the Middle East, Eastern Asia, and South America. This is anecdotal commentary, and not scientific.

It's common to get stomach/intestinal problems during the first few months in a new country. For instance, Peace Corps told us that it would happen to most volunteers when we arrived "in Country" and that it would gradually diminish. That was correct; all the volunteers in my group suffered the sh*** at first (which got nicknamed "Tehran Trots"), but after a few months and lots of Lomotil, most of us returned to normal. Many say "it's the water!" There seems to be different bacteria in the water at each location, and upon arrival our gut contains only whatever types we started with. I think these different bugs are incompatible, and once our digestive system re-acclimates itself, the problem goes away. This same process I've passed through many times when moving to a different country.

 

[pfuser]

Hi Pythagorean,

Are you still getting sick quite often? If so, you might be reacting to local toxins in the air, water, foods, or hard goods. They can cause digestive system upset, and/or other symptoms. They can also make allergies worse, but of course so could exposure to a new type of pollen.

 

[Pythagorean]

I think you an atyy were right about allergies. It was probably a combination of a bug once or twice but then allergies always. The pollen levels are high this time of year and I'm getting the symptoms. The worst one is the lethargy, ugh!

 

[Littlegirlfromsweden]

I was wondering the same thing... I am from Sweden and I never had any major coughs or colds and if I did I'd fight them off in a few days... Ever since moving to England I am more or less always under the weather.. I just can't fight off anything.. Is my immune system simply not equipped to deal with some bacteria or virus here?

 

[Jen Lyn]

Ever since my family and I moved to a new country, I notice we've been getting sick a lot. It's not life-threatening and they're common bugs, they're not even bad enough to keep me home from work. Does this mean our like, virus definitions are updating, or something? Or are we just going to be sicker more often in this place than in our home. We're in a way more populated place now and I use public transportation and we have kids going on playdates.

So obviously, I'm getting more exposure. I'm just curious if the immune system eventually adapts to new places like this or if people in some areas just deal with more occurrences of disease.

I know this is an old post, but I’m experiencing the same thing. Moved from LA to San Diego and have had 5 terrible colds in only 5 months! Before that I hadn’t been sick in 5 years. (Which is ironic since LA was more stressful, expensive and has worse air quality). I work from home office in new building with no kids or pets at home. Healthy vegan, sleep well, exercise 5x a week, take vitamins, plenty of sunshine...There’s no other explanation besides new city. If it doesn’t change soon I’m moving back to LA! I’ll assume your situation improved by now?

 

[berkeman]

Welcome to the PF.

I work from home office in new building with no kids or pets at home

Hmm, that takes care of most means of catching the virus. How old is the new building? Does it seem like the air circulation is not very good because of insulation? (Sick building syndrome)

Do you have a GP doc in your new city yet? I would discuss this with him/her to see if they have some ideas...

 

[Jen Lyn]

I have excellent air circulation with 2 walls of windows on 3rd floor. Only 10 mms from ocean. It’s even a green certified building...fake wood floors, solar panels, etc. Built in 2012. I do attend a lot of meetings at night in close proximity such as yoga studios, gym classes and support groups. But am very careful with hand sanitizers, etc.

 

[berkeman]

Are you certain that they were colds? How long did they last? Productive cough for several days near the end to clear out your lungs? Yellow sputum coming up with the productive coughs? If not, some of them may have been allergies, since you are in a new place with different plants, etc.

Do you get a flu shot every year? You didn't have a fever with these colds, right?

And you didn't reply to my question about seeing a doc about this...

 

[BillTre]

I have allergies to lots of things, including some gyms. So that might be one source of problems.
If I have bad allergy symptoms, I often get secondary infections (probably bacterial).

Might not be really relevant to San Diego, but is to LA where you moved from, I get really bad allergies when the Santa Anna winds happen.

Being at sea on the other hand, are the opposite for me, no allergies.
Which way does the wind go in San Diego?

 

[Pythagorean]

If it doesn’t change soon I’m moving back to LA! I’ll assume your situation improved by now?

Yea it's gotten better, but never ceased to Alaskan levels. Perhaps the limited population, remoteness, and coldness of my hometown reduces the longevity and diversity of disease causing germs.

 

[Jen Lyn]

Are you certain that they were colds? How long did they last? Productive cough for several days near the end to clear out your lungs? Yellow sputum coming up with the productive coughs? If not, some of them may have been allergies, since you are in a new place with different plants, etc.

Do you get a flu shot every year? You didn't have a fever with these colds, right?

And you didn't reply to my question about seeing a doc about this...

Positive it's a cold yes, at least right now for certain. Perhaps some prior ones were allergies.

I have never had a flu shot as I have not had the flu since I moved to California 20 years ago. Also, they are quite problematic for many reasons. Since I work alone or by appointment with clients in their home, it seems unwarranted.

I have been waiting for my health insurance to transfer to San Diego so could not see a doctor until January 1. However, doctors can't do anything about the common cold so it ends up being a waste of time. To be honest, I have never been helped by a doctor -except 40 years ago when I needed stitches as a child. I tend to lean more toward holistic and eastern medicine and avoid hospitals and prescription drugs altogether. Even Tylenol makes me feel drugged. I am very sensitive to things like this. It has served me well as I have more energy than anyone I know. That is why I am so baffled right now.

 

[Jen Lyn]

Yea it's gotten better, but never ceased to Alaskan levels. Perhaps the limited population, remoteness, and coldness of my hometown reduces the longevity and diversity of disease causing germs.

That makes perfect sense. The less people the better air quality usually too.

 

[berkeman]

I have been waiting for my health insurance to transfer to San Diego so could not see a doctor until January 1. However, doctors can't do anything about the common cold so it ends up being a waste of time.

So it's after January 1 now, so you should be good to go. Yeah, we currently have little that we can do for the common cold virus except for the prevention measures that you are taking (hand washing, etc.), but my hope was that a doc visit might help to diagnose whether these were multiple colds or other things mixed in like allergies. There are definitely tests that a local doc can give you for local allergies, etc.

Hope you feel better soon. San Diego would be a fun place to live and work, IMO. (I was born in SoCal and moved all over the world with my Army family, but San Diego has always been a fun vacation destination...)

 

[Jen Lyn]

I have allergies to lots of things, including some gyms. So that might be one source of problems.
If I have bad allergy symptoms, I often get secondary infections (probably bacterial).

Might not be really relevant to San Diego, but is to LA where you moved from, I get really bad allergies when the Santa Anna winds happen.

Being at sea on the other hand, are the opposite for me, no allergies.
Which way does the wind go in San Diego?

Good question. I don't believe we have had Santa Ana winds since I moved here. However, it's possible that some of the bad air quality is blowing in from the fires up north in Santa Barbara and Ventura County. Although, my phone app says the air quality here is always good. I am within a few blocks of a major street and a mile from major freeway, but that was the same case in LA too.

Your allergy comment makes sense. I do have dust and smoke allergies and seem pretty sensitive to heavy chemicals/perfumes/cleaning agents too. Perhaps I am getting triggered with that first then catching a cold. I have an air purifier in my bedroom certified by the asthma society or something.

At first I thought perhaps I was detoxing from the bad LA air quality! But it would not be lasting so long.

I am going to have my groceries delivered until flu season is over. I have been hearing A LOT of coughing and sneezing at the grocery stores lately. I don't know why people go there sick when they offer free 2 hour delivery.

 

[Jen Lyn]

So it's after January 1 now, so you should be good to go. Yeah, we currently have little that we can do for the common cold virus except for the prevention measures that you are taking (hand washing, etc.), but my hope was that a doc visit might help to diagnose whether these were multiple colds or other things mixed in like allergies. There are definitely tests that a local doc can give you for local allergies, etc.

Hope you feel better soon. San Diego would be a fun place to live and work, IMO. (I was born in SoCal and moved all over the world with my Army family, but San Diego has always been a fun vacation destination...)

Thanks! San Diego is amazing. When I feel good, I feel really good here -and younger than ever. That's why these illnesses come as such a surprise (and contrast).

Yeah I'll go see doc I guess:-) j

 

[Vanadium 50]

Productive cough for several days near the end to clear out your lungs? Yellow sputum coming up with the productive coughs?

So much for dinner.

I have had the same experience as Bobbywhy's 6-1/2 year old post. It takes a while to readjust to US/European/Japanese food. Even if it's the "same".

 

[Tom.G]

fake wood floors,

Those are a possible source of allergens. The binders/solvents used in them gradually migrate to the air. The same can occur with carpets.

Not as often, but new upholstered furniture can create the same situation for some people. When the synthetic padding out-gasses, the common polyurethane foam is a trigger for some folks.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[berkeman]

So much for dinner.

Hey, it's a medical forum...

 

[256bits]

Doesn't look good for travelers to far and wide places from home.
Certainly, for some destinations checking out the recommended shots beforehand is a good idea.

 

[sysprog]

Water?

 

[Rive]

Also, it is a common thing to 'share' all the new virus/bacteria gathered during vacation in the first weeks in kindergarten/elementary school: and once I've heard half a class getting some cold-like whatever from a transfer student.
So, sometimes just new community: new sickness. Takes a while to adapt.

 

[jim mcnamara]

Children are primary vectors or pathogen sources for other vectors. Malaria, influenza, measles, for example.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK52939/ discusses vectors, and reservoirs for pathogens.
In practical terms it means children bear the brunt of disease processes.

 

[StingrayJane]

I know this is an old post, but I’m experiencing the same thing. Moved from LA to San Diego and have had 5 terrible colds in only 5 months! Before that I hadn’t been sick in 5 years. (Which is ironic since LA was more stressful, expensive and has worse air quality). I work from home office in new building with no kids or pets at home. Healthy vegan, sleep well, exercise 5x a week, take vitamins, plenty of sunshine...There’s no other explanation besides new city. If it doesn’t change soon I’m moving back to LA! I’ll assume your situation improved by now?

I'm just curious if you found out eventually what was the cause? I have had something very similar happen. I moved from Ontario to Saskatchewan last year. It's now been 13 months. I have been itching, felt icky like I'm just getting over a cold or flu and I feel tired all the time and sore often. I'm determined to figure it out because I love the town where I've moved and I want to stay but I'd prefer to not feel so physically lousy so often.

 

[berkeman]

I'm just curious if you found out eventually what was the cause? I have had something very similar happen. I moved from Ontario to Saskatchewan last year. It's now been 13 months. I have been itching, felt icky like I'm just getting over a cold or flu and I feel tired all the time and sore often. I'm determined to figure it out because I love the town where I've moved and I want to stay but I'd prefer to not feel so physically lousy so often.

Welcome to the PF.

Have you spoken with a doctor about this yet? They will probably be able to help you figure this out relatively quickly.

 

[OmCheeto]

I know this is an old post, but I’m experiencing the same thing. Moved from LA to San Diego and have had 5 terrible colds in only 5 months! Before that I hadn’t been sick in 5 years. (Which is ironic since LA was more stressful, expensive and has worse air quality). I work from home office in new building with no kids or pets at home. Healthy vegan, sleep well, exercise 5x a week, take vitamins, plenty of sunshine...There’s no other explanation besides new city. If it doesn’t change soon I’m moving back to LA! I’ll assume your situation improved by now?

Interesting.
For the last 30+ years, I've lived in Portland Oregon, and my sister has lived in San Diego.
The last 2 times she came to visit me, I got sick.
According to wikipedia, there are over 200 viruses that cause the common cold.
I wonder if certain viruses hang out in certain locations?

... it is a common thing to 'share' all the new virus/bacteria gathered during vacation in the first weeks in kindergarten/elementary school: and once I've heard half a class getting some cold-like whatever from a transfer student.
...

I would be interested in reading studies about this phenomena.

 

[Rive]

I would be interested in reading studies about this phenomena.

I believe this is referred as 'back to school plague' in English.

 

[StingrayJane]

Welcome to the PF.

Have you spoken with a doctor about this yet? They will probably be able to help you figure this out relatively quickly.

Thank you for the welcome :) I've been to see a doctor a few times since I moved and had some tests on things I considered to be unrelated to the move...

First I went for the itching and I was prescribed a $35 dollar cortisone cream; so I just bought the store brand for $5 the next time which worked just as well. However it felt a little like a hemophiliac being told to stock up on band-aids at Costco; no attempt at figuring out the root cause.

It took till last month to find out that the city water was hard and it's probably an allergy but since the city just replaced the water treatment plant, that particular problem may be solved next month when it officially kicks in.

A few months later I went for a walk in for two new problems, severe heel pain and missed periods. Xrays showed heel spurs and blood work came back with a minor Vit D deficiency. I was told to take D and re-visit if I missed more periods. I did.

Went back and had a slew of blood work done again and that came back with slightly low estrogen so I was referred to a gynecologist. What I didn't do was go to a walk in specifically to say "ever since I moved I feel slightly ill and extremely fatigued" for fear I would be told it was in my head or told to go back to the east. However, now that I have found out that a good friend and colleague who moved at the same time is experiencing the same thing (except the lady issues as he is a...He) well, now I'm really starting to think it has to do with either the water, the climate or the canola factories or something else like that.

Neither of us want to move because the place is just perfect otherwise. It's like building your dream home and realizing your allergic to the construction materials :p

 

[berkeman]

What I didn't do was go to a walk in specifically to say "ever since I moved I feel slightly ill and extremely fatigued" for fear I would be told it was in my head or told to go back to the east. However, now that I have found out that a good friend and colleague who moved at the same time is experiencing the same thing (except the lady issues as he is a...He) well, now I'm really starting to think it has to do with either the water, the climate or the canola factories or something else like that.

Sorry you're going through so much right now! I think it would be good to go back to the doctors with that specific question/complaint, so that they can line up the right tests. I doubt they will tell you it is "in your head" or to leave town.

 

[StingrayJane]

Sorry you're going through so much right now! I think it would be good to go back to the doctors with that specific question/complaint, so that they can line up the right tests. I doubt they will tell you it is "in your head" or to leave town.

You're probably right. I guess I'm just extra cautious because in Canada it can get weird...sometimes tests are not run because it would put too much strain on the system, sometimes it's cheaper to refer a patient to a counselor who isn't covered by provincial health care.

As for being told to go back east lol, well, if you can believe it the nurse at triage just about told me that when I went in for the gyno tests and she badgered me about what I did for a living. It would not be the first time I moved to a small town and had people tell me I'd be better off moving back to the city.

I think sometimes people don't realize that not everybody likes big cities and traffic jams and the people who make those silly remarks are people who take small-town life for granted. Part of me wants to see if switching the Brita filter to buying spring water like everybody else in town might fix this; but that's probably the part of me who hates getting needles shoved in my arm :p

 

[berkeman]

As for being told to go back east lol, well, if you can believe it the nurse at triage just about told me that when I went in for the gyno tests and she badgered me about what I did for a living. It would not be the first time I moved to a small town and had people tell me I'd be better off moving back to the city.

Hopefully this is less of an issue with the docs, compared to some of the nurses. Hang in there, and I hope you feel better soon.

 

[OmCheeto]

I believe this is referred as 'back to school plague' in English.

I went thru 10 pages of google search results. Very little information other that "wash your hands".

 

[Tom.G]

It seems that moving to a new location works both ways. I've lived in half a dozen areas across the USA and sometimes had increases in mild reactions, even moving just a few miles.

Then there is one woman I ran across who moved from the Central Plains near the Canadian border to the Greater Los Angeles area. She had been suffering from Lupus (classified as an autoimmune disease), which disappeared after the move! Ten years and counting. In the DEC. 20, 2019 Science magazine, pg.1531 (synopsis on pg.1445), there is an article about evidence of environmental factors triggering Lupus-like disease.

Somewhat related are indications that children exposed in their early years to various pathogens are often healthier as adults than their 'City Raised, Helicopter Parent' cohorts. It seems to set up their immune system for more appropriate responses. (last sentence is my own speculation)

So, yes, environmental changes can affect allergies/health, in addition to exposure to whatever viruses are circulating in the local population.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Rive]

I went thru 10 pages of google search results. Very little information other that "wash your hands".

Well, it's the same here. By its nature this topic is really fuzzy: wide variation of 'mild' germs supported with the general anxiety of children - guess it's no wonder that not much researcher wishes to dig into this moat. Especially since it's more annoying than serious.
Of course it's also possible that I could not find the right words to search for.

Regarding the 'wash your hands' part: once I've heard a teacher rumbling that it would be better to mix up all the children once at the start of the term and get over the thing in a week so classes could be started seriously: since the other way the whole first month is wasted on bringing up those who just skipped a few days.

 

[Nik_2213]

"I have never had a flu shot..."
{ face palm... }
Unless you have specific medical issues that preclude such, please, Please, PLEASE get your seasonal flu vaccination, plus your 'decadal' pneumonia. Even if they do not prevent infection, they should mitigate severity. And, you are contributing towards 'Community Immunity'.

Worst case, if you fetch up in A&E (ER) during a 'Code Black', declaring your vaccinations WILL count towards your triage points. You WILL rank higher than adjacent non-vaxxer or anti-vaxxer with identical symptoms. Put bluntly, you've the better chance of avoiding 'complications' and recovering given the same minimal care. So, those begrudged vaccinations, like a routine anti-tetanus, may save your life...
--
FWIW, perhaps borrow a portable dehumidifier. In passing, it may precipitate enough pollen, smog etc to ease symptoms. Non-drowsy anti-histamines may help, too...
--
IMHO, 'Holistic & Eastern Medicine', including Ayuverdic, may have a powerful placebo effect, usually via combination of bed-side manner and cost. Sadly, like the 'Infinite Dilution' stuff, it fails 'double-blind' studies that would similarly exclude any non-efficacious mainstream medicine...
--
Disclosure: Spent my career in a small but busy corner of Big Pharma QA/QC. For some years, I shared desk-phone with our Complaints Dept. Talked to many, many folk who just wanted a meaningful explanation (*) rather than a curt form-letter. No issues with NDAs and proprietary procedures-- Our testing was 'Pharma Standard' per BP / BPC / EP / USP, and totally audited. Queries got the same intelligent replies as industry VIPs and school / college tours we took around...

*) Classic was an irate, 'Inhaler doesn't work !'
Upon inspection, we found that hapless salbutamol can had acquired so many labels, it had become too fat to slide in its actuator.
After we carefully un-peeled the half-dozen, the now-nude can's bar-code gave a batch which was multiple years out of date, beyond even authorised re-testing. It had wandered Europe from distributor to distributor, gaining a new label at each. On top of prior labels. Upon dosage testing, the nude can proved as good as new, but that wasn't the point.
Our formal reply was 'Un-substantiated, out of date'. My full explanation indicted the prolonged 'parallel import' route to the complainant's penny-pinching pharmacy, and the sheer stupidity of layering all those labels...
IIRC, we got a 'Thank You' card.
N

 

[Jen Lyn]

I'm just curious if you found out eventually what was the cause? I have had something very similar happen. I moved from Ontario to Saskatchewan last year. It's now been 13 months. I have been itching, felt icky like I'm just getting over a cold or flu and I feel tired all the time and sore often. I'm determined to figure it out because I love the town where I've moved and I want to stay but I'd prefer to not feel so physically lousy so often.

YES! I think most of these episodes during first 4 months were allergies. Only one turned into a cold in January when I posted this. This is the first place I lived where I did NOT install Super Hepafilters in the air ducts. Big mistake! Apparently I was over confident in the air quality here and assumed since I was no longer in LA (or living in an old place with carpet) I was safe. Well the tenants below me have a dog, and we share air ducts. I'm very sensitive to pet dander, dust and smoke. I checked the current filters and discovered they do not even fit. They are 6" too small! In other words, there is no air filter on part of the 2 air ducts. I have always been sensitive with allergies so always put the highest level filters everywhere. Also I read it takes 6 months for your body to de-stress after a move. Stress will knock down your immune system which increases sensitive. My doctor said I am the healthiest person she has seen in years and suspects allergies. Everything else is idealistic, Blood Pressure, Blood Tests, etc..

As for someone else's comment about the flu shot, sorry I will never get one of those. #1 I do not ever get the flu #2 they are effective less than 50% of the time #3 25% (and my entire family) get very sick after the flu shot. Why would I want to get the flu when I never get the flu now? Is really a shot in the dark, they do not know what they are doing and the evidence is in the numbers.

 

[berkeman]

YES! I think most of these episodes during first 4 months were allergies. Only one turned into a cold in January when I posted this. This is the first place I lived where I did NOT put in my own Super Hepafilters in the air ducts. Big mistake! Apparently I was over confident in the air quality here and assumed since I was no longer in LA or living in an old place with carpet, I was safe. Well the tenants below me have a dog, and we share air ducts. I'm very sensitive to pet dander, dust and smoke. I checked the current filters and discovered they do not even fit. They are 6" too small so, in other words, there is no air filter on part of the 2 air duct openings. I have always been sensitive as a child with allergies so have always put the highest level filters everywhere. It makes a difference. Also I read it takes 6 months for your body to de-stress after a move. Stress will knock down your immune system too.

Great news! Very glad that you are doing better.

As for someone else's comment about the flu shot, sorry I will never get one of those. #1 I do not ever get the flu #2 they are effective less than 50% of the time #3 25% (and my entire family) get very sick after the flu shot. Why would I want to get the flu when I never get the flu now? Is really a shot in the dark, they do not know what they are doing and the evidence is in the numbers.

Sorry that you feel that way. As a medic, I feel the opposite way. And you should probably find a better source for your statistics...

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/index.htm

Be well.

 

[Jen Lyn]

Great news! Very glad that you are doing better.

Sorry that you feel that way. As a medic, I feel the opposite way. And you should probably find a better source for your statistics...

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/index.htm

Be well.

If it's not broken, don't fix it. Do the least harm. That's what I say. Also, flu shots are not vegan. They are pretty disgusting. I was talking specifically about the last flu season. They really blew it with the last vaccine, those were the statistics.

 

[berkeman]

Also, flu shots are not vegan

Very interesting! I had not heard that point before. Here is a link to vegan flu shots:

https://www.passporthealthusa.com/vaccinations/flublok-egg-free-cell-based-influenza-vaccine/

But I understand that there can be some valid arguments against getting the annual flu shot. If you have little contact with other people (especially kids and the elderly), rarely get the flu, and have ill reactions from the flu vaccines typically, a case can be made.