Can a phasor have a negative magnitude?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of phasors, specifically whether a phasor can have a negative magnitude. Participants explore the representation of phasors in polar form and the implications of using negative values in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that both representations, ##-60\angle 10°## and ##60\angle 190°##, are equivalent and correct.
  • Others argue that the magnitude of a phasor is always positive, indicating that the answer to whether a phasor can have a negative magnitude is no.
  • One participant clarifies that the magnitude is calculated using the formula for the square root of the sum of squares, which cannot yield a negative result.
  • A later reply mentions the need for the four-quadrant version of the arctangent function to accurately determine the phase of the phasor.
  • Another participant emphasizes the convention of using positive magnitudes and suggests that negative magnitudes might be used informally as a mental aid, but should not be formally accepted.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the magnitude of a phasor is always positive. However, there is disagreement regarding the acceptability of using negative magnitudes in informal contexts, with some advocating for their use as a conceptual tool.

Contextual Notes

There is an implicit assumption that the definitions of magnitude and angle are understood in the context of phasors, and the discussion does not resolve the stylistic implications of using negative magnitudes.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners in electrical engineering, physics, or related fields who are exploring the representation and interpretation of phasors.

Vishera
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Would it be preferred to write ##-60\angle 10°\quad or\quad 60\angle 190°?##

Would one or the other be incorrect? Those two phasors are equivalent, right?
 
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They are both correct. They are both equal.
 
The 'magnitude' in each case is 60. Magnitude is always positive. The angle of the phasor can be described using a sign. So your post is correct but the answer to the title is no.
 
Given the rectangular x and y components of a phasor, the direction is the Arctangent(y/x),
while magnitude = Sqrt(x*x + y*y). The square root of the sum of squares will never be negative.
 
IIRC you need the four-quadrant version atan2(y, x) to get the phase.
 
As Sophie indicated - you should form the habit of magnitude positive, angle where it falls.
That's just "how it's done".

to use a parallel from the dictionary -

Words like "irregardless" and "drownded" are in the dictionary but carry stylistic label "substandard", meaning not used by people considered educated.
Pronunciation of the word "nuclear" as "noo-kyu-ler" used to be labelled "substandard".
But after three US presidents used it, it was upgraded to "nonstandard" meaning "not correct but used by many people who are considered educated". The inference is they should know better.


Ever read that section in the front of Webster's, "Stylistic Labels" ? It's kinda fun.
Noo-kyu-ler might even be just an alternate pronunciation nowadays - it was 1970's last time i looked..

So use negative magnitude as an aid in your thinking until you no longer need it, just don't admit to it.:biggrin:

old jim
 
Last edited:

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