Can a Reeling Motor Tow a Car Faster Using a Speed Reduction Arrangement?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design and optimization of a reeling motor system intended to tow a small car up a slope using a Peltier thermoelectric generator. Participants explore various motor options, torque and speed relationships, and strategies to maximize performance under specific constraints, including power limitations and design rules for a competition.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant emphasizes the importance of selecting a motor that operates efficiently under 12 volts, considering the limitations of the Peltier generator's power output.
  • Another participant suggests focusing on the Peltier generator first, recommending measurement of the voltage vs current curve to identify the maximum power point.
  • Some participants propose using a string to wind up on the motor's shaft as a method of speed reduction, which could help achieve the necessary torque without excessive power loss.
  • There is a suggestion to consider a tapered drum design for the winch to balance starting torque and top speed.
  • Concerns are raised about the efficiency of Peltier generators, with suggestions to explore better options for maximizing power output.
  • Participants discuss the scoring criteria for the competition, questioning whether pulling a heavier weight slowly or a lighter weight quickly would yield more points.
  • One participant mentions the potential use of a flywheel as an alternative to a capacitor for energy storage, pending rule clarification.
  • Questions are raised about the heat source for the Peltier generator and its efficiency in converting thermal energy to electrical energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of optimizing the Peltier generator and exploring various motor configurations, but there is no consensus on the best approach to achieve the desired performance. Multiple competing views on design strategies and scoring criteria remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to the Peltier generator's power output and efficiency, as well as the need for further calculations based on actual measurements once the generator is received. There are also unresolved questions about the rules regarding the use of certain design elements, such as the string and tapered drum.

Who May Find This Useful

Engineering students and hobbyists interested in motor design, thermoelectric applications, and competitive robotics may find this discussion relevant.

  • #31
Hi!,
I just wanted to give you an update as a mean to say thank you because all your ideas were extremely helpful! I passed Thermodynamics thanks to this project, and I ended up working on it alone so the last few semester weeks were hell hahaha. Anyway, just in case any other student finds this thread and for everyone that has shared their opinion, the peltier efficiency was around 5%, I had to use dry ice in a aluminum container on top of a heat dissipator attached to the cold side of the peltier, and applied a temperature around 300oC to the hot side, above that temperature they will surely pop. I used thermal insulation tape on the peltier sides to protect the internal glue from overheating and keep the heat transfer on the two main faces. Ended up getting like 3-4 V max with a 500 mA current, none of the motors I had ordered worked with such a small current so I went to an electric shop and bought an RC car motor that had its own small plastic gearing case and attached a plastic nylon reel to it to tow a small 100g laser cut car, I did not even try to go for the prize cause this was the only working design out of 3 failed attemps and I was fed up and sleep deprived on the presentation, but everything went well and just by reaching the top of the slope where the competition was held you had a full mark on your project, at the end no one really tried to win the competition cause it was much harder that expected and everyone was so done with this project, but I'm happy because I feel like I learned a lot.
Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you everyone for your opinions, here are some pictures of the parts I mentioned above.

https://ibb.co/deSbgU
https://ibb.co/kbLU1U
https://ibb.co/iBAq89
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dlgoff, Tom.G, jim hardy and 5 others
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
Thanks for the update. That tower of dry ice and large heat sink is impressive! I think you did very well to get 1~2 Watts out of that Peltier. I'm sure you learned a lot, as you were originally thinking of tens of watts and much larger motors.

These Peltiers seem so attractive at first glance: temperature delta in, electricity out! No moving parts! Small and light! How elegant!

But in practice, getting meaningful power out becomes quite involved. Congratulations on getting full marks on this!

I remember the first time I played around with a Peltier at a hobby level. I held it pinched between my fingers, applied power, and was thrilled that I immediately felt heat on one side, and cold on the other. That thrill dissipated as fast as the heat dissipated from one side to another through the junctions, and it just turned into a heater (in a second or two)! Yes, it takes a lot of attention to heat transfer on both sides to attain significant results.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Paola Flores

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
8K
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
9K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
5K