Can anybody explain the modulation of radio waves in terms of photons?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the modulation of radio frequency (RF) waves, specifically Amplitude Modulation (AM), Frequency Modulation (FM), and Phase Modulation (PM), and whether these concepts can be explained in terms of photons. The scope includes theoretical aspects of quantum mechanics and electromagnetic theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that in AM, the number of photons sent varies, while in FM, the frequency of the photons changes, and in PM, the phase of the photons is shifted.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on BPSK modulation, questioning how photons experience phase transitions when transmitted continuously.
  • A response indicates that during a phase transition in BPSK, the phase is shifted by 180°, with a mathematical representation of the photon wavefunction provided.
  • There is a challenge regarding whether photons are associated with phase properties, with a distinction made between single photons and coherent states, noting that single photons do not have a definite phase.
  • A later reply emphasizes the complexity of defining photon properties and suggests that discussions should focus on field properties rather than individual photons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between photons and phase properties, with some asserting that photons can be described in terms of modulation techniques while others argue that the concept of a photon is more complex and tied to field theory. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the definitive properties of photons.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the properties of photons, particularly in relation to phase and modulation, and suggests a dependence on advanced concepts in quantum mechanics and field theory.

sriecewit
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Hi All,

I wonder if the modulation of RF waves (Amplitude Modulation, Frequency Modulation, and Phase Modulation) can be explained in terms of photons.

Thanks,
Srini
 
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Sure:
AM - you are sending either small or large number of photons in a unit of time.
FM - you are sending photons of such or another frequency
PM - at some moment you stop sending coherent photons like previously, and start sending the ones of the same frequency, but shifted in phase
 
xts said:
Sure:
AM - you are sending either small or large number of photons in a unit of time.
FM - you are sending photons of such or another frequency
PM - at some moment you stop sending coherent photons like previously, and start sending the ones of the same frequency, but shifted in phase

Can you elaborate the third one a bit?
More specifically, with respect to BPSK modulation, where the photons needs to be transmitted continuously. What difference does the photos experience when phase transition happens?

Srini
 
sriecewit said:
More specifically, with respect to BPSK modulation, where the photons needs to be transmitted continuously. What difference does the photos experience when phase transition happens?
Exactly the same, as for classical electromagnetism - the phase gets shifted, in case of BPSK by 180°. Time-dependent factor of the photon wavefunction is [itex]e^{-i(\omega t+\Theta_0)}[/itex], at the phase transition you stop sending coherent photons with factor [itex]e^{-i\omega t}[/itex] and start sending ones with [itex]e^{-i(\omega t+\pi)}[/itex]
 
xts said:
Time-dependent factor of the photon wavefunction is [itex]e^{-i(\omega t+\Theta_0)}[/itex], at the phase transition you stop sending coherent photons with factor [itex]e^{-i\omega t}[/itex] and start sending ones with [itex]e^{-i(\omega t+\pi)}[/itex]

Are photons associated with the phase property? Aren't they just energy packets, whose energy varies as the frequency times the constant?
Let me put it in this way. What all parameters does specify a photon?
 
sriecewit said:
Are photons associated with the phase property? Aren't they just energy packets, whose energy varies as the frequency times the constant?
Let me put it in this way. What all parameters does specify a photon?

This is a complicated question. Single photons do not have a definite phase (the phase for any number state is undefined). However, other states (coherent states etc) DO have definite phases. Even the concept of a photon is a bit tricky to define "properly" without a good understanding of field theory (=advanced quantum mechanics).
Anyway, the point is that you can't really talk about properties of photons, but you CAN talk about properties of fields.

So the answer to your questions is: it is complicated :wink:
 
Thanks for the help Guys !
:smile:
 

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