Can astronomical observation take place in daylight in Antacrtica?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the feasibility of astronomical observations during daylight in Antarctica, particularly at Concordia Station. Participants explore various aspects of visibility, atmospheric conditions, and historical practices related to observing celestial bodies in bright conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a Wikipedia article stating that astronomical observations can occur even when the Sun is at an elevation angle of 38° at Concordia Station due to the transparency of the Antarctic atmosphere.
  • Others note that radio telescopes can operate in daylight, suggesting that starlight is still present despite the blue sky, and that high-altitude observations can enhance visibility.
  • One participant mentions that solar observatories seem to prefer daylight for their observations.
  • It is noted that the Moon can be seen during the day, and some participants share personal experiences of spotting bright stars like Venus in daylight under specific conditions.
  • A historical reference is made to the Aztecs or Mayans observing Venus during the day from dark caves, which helped in distinguishing it against the bright sky.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the visibility of celestial objects during daylight, with some agreeing on the possibility of such observations while others provide differing methods and historical examples. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best practices and conditions for daytime astronomical observations.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various conditions affecting visibility, such as atmospheric transparency, altitude, and specific observational techniques, but do not resolve the implications of these factors on the feasibility of daytime observations.

swampwiz
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I was reading this Wikipedia article that says observations can be done even when the Sun is at 38° of elevation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordia_Station

Concordia Station has been identified as a suitable location for extremely accurate astronomical observations. The transparency of the Antarctic atmosphere permits the observation of stars even when the sun is at an elevation angle of 38°.
 
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Radio telescopes regularly operate in broad daylight in North America.

Starlight does not go away during the day. There is just a lot of noise we see as a blue sky. The 38 degrees just means "in broad daylight" if your station is 15 degree north of the south pole.

Taking measurements in infrared and placing the telescope at high altitude makes a big difference.
 
stefan r said:
Radio telescopes regularly operate in broad daylight in North America.

If you want to go down that path, solar observatories seem to favor daylight for some reason.
 
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Of course, you can see the moon during the day. I have been told that if you are in a clear sky location (up in the mountains, say) that you can see bright stars in the daytime if you are in a location where your eyes are shielded from the sunlight, such as down a well. I have seen Venus in the daytime with binoculars. You have to know where to look.
 
phyzguy said:
I have seen Venus in the daytime with binoculars. You have to know where to look.

I have seen Venus around midday naked eye many times. It helps if it's near one of greatest elongations, and if the crescent Moon in not too far away in the sky. Before I go out, I use Stellarium (or something similar) to find the relative orientation of Venus, the Moon, and the Sun. it sometimes helps to locate Venus first with binoculars, but sometimes knowing the configuration of Venus, the Moon, and the Sun is enough.
 
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I believe the Aztecs or Mayans (not sure which) would observe Venus during the day, by making observations from within a dark cave. The small cave mouth would present just a small portion of the sky, thereby making it easier to distinguish the not-very-bright Venus against the bright blue of the sky, whereas trying to pick it out of the full sky is more difficult.
 
The Maya were big on Venus. (One of R P Feynman's fascinations was the Mayan Codex.... he talks about this in publications)
 

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