Can every subring of an algebraic extension be a field?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether every subring of an algebraic extension of a field is itself a field. Participants explore definitions, properties of fields, and provide examples to illustrate their points, with a focus on algebraic and transcendental extensions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that every subring of an algebraic extension containing a base field is a field, providing reasoning based on algebraic elements and minimal polynomials.
  • Another participant challenges this claim, stating that the original assertion only proves the existence of a field, not that every subring is a field.
  • Participants discuss the properties required for a ring to be a field, emphasizing the need for inverses.
  • Examples are provided, including the ring of polynomials in a transcendental variable, which contains a base field but is not a field itself.
  • Corrections are made regarding algebraic manipulations in the context of proving inverses exist within the subring.
  • Questions are raised about the implications if the extension is not algebraic, leading to examples that demonstrate the failure of the property in transcendental cases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus. There is disagreement on whether every subring of an algebraic extension is a field, with some examples illustrating that this is not the case in non-algebraic extensions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion hinges on the definitions of algebraic versus transcendental extensions and the properties of rings and fields, which may vary based on the specific elements involved.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

$K \leq E$ an algebraic extension. I am asked to show that each subring of $E$ that contains $K$ is a field.

I have done the following:

$K \leq E$ algebraic $\Rightarrow \forall a \in E, \exists f(x)\in K[x]:f(a)=0$

A subfield of $E$ that contains $K$ is $K[a], \forall a \in E$.

Since $a$ is algebraic over $K$,it stands that $K(a)=K[a]$.

Therefore, a subring of $E$ that contains $K$ is $K(a),\forall a\in E$, where $K(a)$ is a field since it is a ring and $1\in K(a)$ so $1=f(a)g^{-1}(a)\Rightarrow f^{-1}(a)=g^{-1}(a)\in K(a)$.

Is this correct??

Or is there something I could improve??
 
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You have only proved that there is a subring of $E$ containing $K$ which is a field, but that is not what the questions asks for. It wants you to prove that *every* subring of $E$ containing $K$ is a field.

First go through the fundamental definitions. What are the properties which makes a ring a field? Being commutative, having the identity element *and* having inverses. The first two properties follow naturally, as the ring is contained in a field.

Assume $\alpha \in R \subset E$. You have to prove that $\alpha^{-1} \in R$ too. You need to look at some of the rings to get a good idea of these : think, for example, about $\Bbb Q[\omega]$ where $\omega$ is one of the cube roots of unity. This, of course, is a field$(+)$ but ignore that harsh reality for a second. Can we find an expression for $\omega^{-1}$? Well note that the minimal polynomial is $\omega^2 + \omega + 1 = 0$ so, $\omega(\omega + 1) = -1$ which implies $\omega(-1-\omega) = 1$. Thus, by definition of an inverse, $-1-\omega$ is the inverse of $\omega$.

Can you do similar with your ring $R$? Maybe consider the minimal polynomial of $\alpha$ in $K$? What can you do with it? Remember that $K$ is contained in $R$ and is "spanned" by $K$, i.e., rings (fields) $K[\gamma_i]$ are all sitting inside $R$ for $\gamma_i \in R$. Use these.


$(+)$[CRANK]PS : I have been trying to find a ring which is also an algebraic extension of a field for years, and it's pretty sad that the search result is inconclusive as of now. Anyone who can help me with a good algorithm on GAP for doing this will get a share of 1000 dollars from the prize money[ENDCRANK]
 
Last edited:
mathbalarka said:
Can you do similar with your ring $R$? Maybe consider the minimal polynomial of $\alpha$ in $K$? What can you do with it? Remember that $K$ is contained in $R$ and is "spanned" by $K$, i.e., rings (fields) $K[\gamma_i]$ are all sitting inside $R$ for $\gamma_i \in R$. Use these.

Since $a$ is algebraic over $K$, it solves the minimal polynomial $Irr(a,K)=\gamma_0+\gamma_1x+\dots +\gamma_{n-1}x^{n-1}+\gamma_nx^n$.

$$\gamma_0+\gamma_1a+ \dots +\gamma_{n-1}a^{n-1}+\gamma_na^n=0$$

Since $Irr(a,K)$ is irreducible, it has to be $\gamma_0 \neq 0$, otherwise it could be written as $x \cdot q(x)$.

$$-(\gamma_1a+ \dots +\gamma_{n-1}a^{n-1}+\gamma_na^n)=\gamma_0 \\ \Rightarrow -\gamma_0^{-1}(\gamma_1a+ \dots +\gamma_{n-1}a^{n-1}+\gamma_na^n)=1 \\ \Rightarrow a \left ( -\gamma_0^{-1}(\gamma_1a+ \dots +\gamma_{n-1}a^{n-1}+\gamma_na^n)\right )=1$$

Therefore, $a^{-1}=-\gamma_0^{-1}(\gamma_1a+ \dots +\gamma_{n-1}a^{n-1}+\gamma_na^n) \in R$.

Is this correct??
 
Nope, you have made an algebra mistake on the 3rd line :

$$-(\gamma_1a+ \dots +\gamma_{n-1}a^{n-1}+\gamma_na^n)=\gamma_0 \\ \Rightarrow -\gamma_0^{-1}(\gamma_1a+ \dots +\gamma_{n-1}a^{n-1}+\gamma_na^n)=1 \\ \Rightarrow a \left ( -\gamma_0^{-1}\color{red}{(\gamma_1+ \dots +\gamma_{n-1}a^{n-2}+\gamma_na^{n-1})}\right )=1$$

Thus it follows that $a^{-1} = -\gamma_0^{-1} (\gamma_1 + \cdots + \gamma_n a^{n-1})$ but the right hand side is a polynomial in $a \in R$ with constant coefficients from $K \subset R$, thus in $R$. Hence, $a^{-1} \in R$.
 
mathbalarka said:
You have only proved that there is a subring of $E$ containing $K$ which is a field, but that is not what the questions asks for. It wants you to prove that *every* subring of $E$ containing $K$ is a field.

First go through the fundamental definitions. What are the properties which makes a ring a field? Being commutative, having the identity element *and* having inverses. The first two properties follow naturally, as the ring is contained in a field.

Assume $\alpha \in R \subset E$. You have to prove that $\alpha^{-1} \in R$ too. You need to look at some of the rings to get a good idea of these : think, for example, about $\Bbb Q[\omega]$ where $\omega$ is one of the cube roots of unity. This, of course, is a field$(+)$ but ignore that harsh reality for a second. Can we find an expression for $\omega^{-1}$? Well note that the minimal polynomial is $\omega^2 + \omega + 1 = 0$ so, $\omega(\omega + 1) = -1$ which implies $\omega(-1-\omega) = 1$. Thus, by definition of an inverse, $-1-\omega$ is the inverse of $\omega$.

Can you do similar with your ring $R$? Maybe consider the minimal polynomial of $\alpha$ in $K$? What can you do with it? Remember that $K$ is contained in $R$ and is "spanned" by $K$, i.e., rings (fields) $K[\gamma_i]$ are all sitting inside $R$ for $\gamma_i \in R$. Use these.


$(+)$[CRANK]PS : I have been trying to find a ring which is also an algebraic extension of a field for years, and it's pretty sad that the search result is inconclusive as of now. Anyone who can help me with a good algorithm on GAP for doing this will get a share of 1000 dollars from the prize money[ENDCRANK]

Isn't $\text{End}_{\Bbb R}(\Bbb R^n)$ such a ring, by the Cayley-Hamiltion theorem? Or did you mean something else?
 
Ahhh this is a sneaky catch. I meant a ring which is a *finite* algebraic extension of a field ($K[x_1, x_2, \cdots, x_n] = K(x_1, x_2, \cdots, x_n)$ so there is none, which was the supposed to be the punch-line of the crank). Never studied Cayley-Hamilton, so that must be fun.

Thanks for the information!
 
mathbalarka said:
Nope, you have made an algebra mistake on the 3rd line :

$$-(\gamma_1a+ \dots +\gamma_{n-1}a^{n-1}+\gamma_na^n)=\gamma_0 \\ \Rightarrow -\gamma_0^{-1}(\gamma_1a+ \dots +\gamma_{n-1}a^{n-1}+\gamma_na^n)=1 \\ \Rightarrow a \left ( -\gamma_0^{-1}\color{red}{(\gamma_1+ \dots +\gamma_{n-1}a^{n-2}+\gamma_na^{n-1})}\right )=1$$

Thus it follows that $a^{-1} = -\gamma_0^{-1} (\gamma_1 + \cdots + \gamma_n a^{n-1})$ but the right hand side is a polynomial in $a \in R$ with constant coefficients from $K \subset R$, thus in $R$. Hence, $a^{-1} \in R$.

You`re right! Thank you for your answer! So, since R is a subring the only thing that we have to show is that each element of R has an inverse in R, right?? To do that we used the fact that each a is an algebraic element over K, since the extension is algebraic. What if the extension were not algebraic?? Would it still stand that each subring of E that contains K is a field??
 
mathmari said:
What if the extension were not algebraic?? Would it still stand that each subring of E that contains K is a field??

That's not nessesary. Pick up $E = \Bbb{Q}(X)$ and $K = \Bbb Q$ for some transcendental $X$ over $K$. $E/K$ thus is not algebraic. Let $R$ be the ring $\Bbb {Q}[X]$. This contains $K$, but is not a field : $R$ is the ring of rational polynomials, and $X \in R$. The inverse of $X$ in $E$ is $1/X$, which is not a polynomial, and thus not in $R$.
 
mathbalarka said:
That's not nessesary. Pick up $E = \Bbb{Q}(X)$ and $K = \Bbb Q$ for some transcendental $X$ over $K$. $E/K$ thus is not algebraic. Let $R$ be the ring $\Bbb {Q}[X]$. This contains $K$, but is not a field : $R$ is the ring of rational polynomials, and $X \in R$. The inverse of $X$ in $E$ is $1/X$, which is not a polynomial, and thus not in $R$.

I see... Thank you very much! (Sun)
 

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