Can I always think of derivatives this way?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Ahmed1029
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Derivatives
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the interpretation of derivatives in calculus, specifically contrasting the infinitesimal approach with the limit definition. Participants emphasize that while both perspectives can be valid, the limit definition, represented by the formula ##\dfrac{dx}{dt}=\displaystyle{\lim_{t\to 0}\dfrac{x(t_0+t)-x(t_0)}{t}}##, is more rigorous. The conversation highlights the potential pitfalls of treating infinitesimals as separate limits, which can lead to misunderstandings in calculus. Overall, the consensus is that understanding derivatives as changes divided by changes is a more reliable method for those familiar with basic calculus.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of basic calculus concepts, including limits and derivatives.
  • Familiarity with the notation and interpretation of differential equations.
  • Knowledge of functions and their relationships, particularly in physics contexts.
  • Ability to interpret mathematical expressions and their implications in calculus.
NEXT STEPS
  • Explore the formal definition of derivatives using limits in calculus.
  • Study the concept of infinitesimals and their role in non-standard analysis.
  • Learn about the applications of derivatives in physics, particularly in motion and change.
  • Investigate the differences between differential forms and traditional calculus approaches.
USEFUL FOR

Students of calculus, physics enthusiasts, educators teaching calculus concepts, and anyone seeking clarity on the interpretation of derivatives in mathematical analysis.

Ahmed1029
Messages
109
Reaction score
40
TL;DR
Can I always treat derivatives as a small element lf y divided by a small element of x?
In physics, the differential is always treated as a little change or a tiny element of something, be it volume, area, etc. However, when I differentiate a function with respect to another, I always of it as a change divided by a change, not an element divided by an element: like when volume is an explicit function of area, I think of how much the volume changes, rather than taking a small element of volume and dividing it by a small element of area. My question is : are the two "definitions" equally valid? Can I always think of a derivative both ways? + I only know calculus and elementary differential equations so I will probably not understand any answer given in terms of differential forms, so please keep it simple 🥲
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The problem with the infinitesimal picture is that ##\dfrac{dx}{dt}=\displaystyle{\lim_{t\to 0}\dfrac{x(t_0+t)-x(t_0)}{t}}## has two quantities on the left but only one limit on the right. Pretending ##dx,dt## were two limits gets immediately wrong.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: jedishrfu

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
7K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 38 ·
2
Replies
38
Views
5K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K