Can R4 be replaced with a jumper in an ultrasonic generator circuit?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design of an ultrasonic generator circuit operating at 500 kHz. Participants explore the necessity of certain components, particularly resistor R4, and suggest potential improvements or simplifications to the circuit design.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the placement of R1, suggesting it may not provide adequate DC stabilization for the transistor.
  • R4 is debated as potentially unnecessary, with some proposing it could be replaced by a single 18k resistor formed by R2, R3, and R4.
  • Others argue that R4's value (100Ω) is insignificant compared to the combined resistance of R2 and R3, raising questions about the criticality of overall resistance in the circuit.
  • One participant notes that R1 is intended for current sensing rather than stabilization.
  • A participant mentions that the circuit resembles a modification of the Butler Emitter Follower oscillator, recalling similar designs used in ultrasonic cleaners.
  • Some express uncertainty about the complexity of the circuit and the rationale behind its design choices.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and function of R4, with no consensus reached regarding its replacement or the overall circuit design. The discussion includes both supportive and critical perspectives on the circuit's complexity and component placement.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the lack of a datasheet for the piezoelectric disk used, which may limit the understanding of its application in the circuit. Additionally, there are references to simulations conducted in OrCad (PSpice), but details on their outcomes are not provided.

javi2018
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I let you a circuit that is an ultrasonic generator to 500 khz, you feel free to include some improvement.
circuito_500_khz.png
 

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javi2018 said:
I let you a circuit that is an ultrasonic generator to 500 khz, you feel free to include some improvement.
View attachment 214672
Welcome to the PF. :smile:

Where did you get the schematic? Can you describe how it works in detail? Can you provide a datasheet for the ultrasonic transducer? Have you simulated this circuit using a SPICE package? Did you run a Monte Carlo simulation as part of the SPICE simulations?
 
I found the schematic navigating the internet and with trial error I was manipulating the values until I adjusted them, I tested the circuit in OrCad (pspice) but without buzzer, the piezoelectric disk that I used is 1.7Mhz and a static capacitance of 1800pF but I do not have a datasheet for this, which it are used for water atomization.
I'm not an engineer, so I can not clarify much more how it works, I just wanted to share it with others. :wink:
 
javi2018 said:
I let you a circuit that is an ultrasonic generator to 500 khz, you feel free to include some improvement.
View attachment 214672
R1 seems to be in the wrong position to provide DC stabilisation of the transistor. R4 does not seem necessary.
Not sure why the circuit is so complicated. I am not certain of the basic concept of this oscillator as it has components sprinkled everywhere.
 
tech99 said:
R4 does not seem necessary.

Unless I am missing something R2, R3 and R4 can be replaced by a single 18k resistor.
 
tech99 said:
R1 seems to be in the wrong position to provide DC stabilisation of the transistor.
It's not meant to, it is for current sensing.

Overall, the circuit seems a modification of the Butler Emitter Follower oscillator. I seem to recall similar circuits in ultrasonic cleaners but I don't remember the specifics; it was many years ago.
 
Indeed, I forgot to comment, the circuit I extracted from a web of ultrasonic cleaners.
 
Borek said:
Unless I am missing something R2, R3 and R4 can be replaced by a single 18k resistor.

Yes somethings up with that bit.

R4 (100R) is less than 1% of R2//R3. Can't see why the overall resistance is that critical.
 
CWatters said:
Yes somethings up with that bit.

R4 (100R) is less than 1% of R2//R3. Can't see why the overall resistance is that critical.

Even assuming R2 and R3 to be 1% resistors, variability of their equivalent resistance is larger than 100 Ω (trivial estimate suggests it should be somewhere in the 17.7-18.1 kΩ).
 
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Borek said:
Even assuming R2 and R3 to be 1% resistors, variability of their equivalent resistance is larger than 100 Ω (trivial estimate suggests it should be somewhere in the 17.7-18.1 kΩ).
and 18K is a standard value.

I'd guess R4 is just a jumper to get signal across a PCB track.
 
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