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Can someone tell me what this is please?

  1. Nov 14, 2007 #1
    I am sure you have your fair share of nutters on this forum, and you can pass me off as this if you choose to. However, this is a perfectly reasonable question to people who might know - I have been wondering about this structure on the moon, shown in an official Clementine Mission photo.

    square thing on the moon

    Can anyone shed some light on what it might be please?
    As you can see, at 1pixel=1Kilometre it must be a massive structure, kilometres wide and long. The only explanation I have had is that it must be an anomoly on the digital image, but it seems too detailed for that.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 14, 2007 #2

    mgb_phys

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    It's a glitch - just the same as the vertical lines all accross the image.
    Probably where there is either a data drop out or an error registering several images together - if the error is in the digital process then of course it's detailed.
     
  4. Nov 14, 2007 #3
    That is a pretty hefty glitch then.

    As I understood it, the vertical lines are not 'glitches' at all but are where the satellite takes pictures in 'strips' of moon as it moves over the surface. These strips are then stuck together to make up a reasonable-sized image. Isn't that correct then? Nothing is detailed for this Lat & Long. as far as I could see.

    Can you give me other examples of 'glitches' so that I can satisfy myself that this is what it is, because I would like to put my mind at rest about this one.
     
  5. Nov 14, 2007 #4

    mgb_phys

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    The vertical lines are glithces in that they are obvious errors in the orthographic correction / image matching algorithms.
    The square path is either a block of bad data, or data where the signal to noise was poor because of somee fault.
    It has sharp edges because that corresponds to either a numbe ro image frames or data blocks in the transmission process.
    If you use the detail view it says that block is unavailabl so it may be that the data is missing but whetver they use to generate the low res web image is averaging over missing dat to produce the artifact.

    If you use google earth you will see lots of strange shaped areas with no data due to data drop outs or streaks following bright spots where a camera was saturated.
     
  6. Nov 15, 2007 #5
    Another clue it's a glitch- the rectangle is perfectly aligned with the map axes.

    mgb is right- Google Earth contains a ton of glitches like this.
     
  7. Nov 15, 2007 #6
    OK, you have nearly convinced me that this is the answer, but I thought bad data was supposed to be documented so that scientists could accurately study features on the surface. Scientists write peer-reviewed papers which enhance their careers and get published to New Scientist etc from these photographs, they need to know that what they are looking at is really on the ground and is where they think it is. Can you imagine the ridicule they would get if the research they just published was based on 'glitches'? No-one would do it for fear that nasa had forgotten to document the glitch.

    Worldwide there are tens of thousands of scientists using this data. If scientists cannot be sure of accurate data then the whole 'research' thing falls apart. Google Earth is not used for research purposes, and I bet that the Agencies do not put up with satellite intelligence that contains glitches. I suppose it might have accounted for the bad bombing raids on Saddam Hussein though!

    If I were a conspiracy theorists, I would probably say that the hires images are not available because nasa did not want to show too much detail.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2007
  8. Nov 15, 2007 #7

    Hurkyl

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    It's a good thing, then, that you aren't a conspiracy theorist...
     
  9. Nov 15, 2007 #8
    Yes- this thread is getting boring.

    The onus is not on us to prove to you beyond all doubt that a blocky splodge on a pic of the moon is not in fact a hyper-advanced alien artifact or somesuch.
     
  10. Nov 15, 2007 #9

    russ_watters

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    Scientists are smart enough to recognize what they are seeing, so I'm not sure what your complaint is. Are you claiming that those scientists are too dumb to recognize an image artifact?
    The claim that NASA is suppressing higher resolution images because lower resolution images show alien structures is self-contradictory and, quite frankly, stupid.
     
  11. Nov 15, 2007 #10

    mgb_phys

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    Unless it's the film set on the moon they are going to use to fake the mars landings......
     
  12. Nov 16, 2007 #11
    My understanding of the issue is that the image in that section of the photo series was corrupted data and an old map of lower resolution was used to fill in the gap. This photo is a colage of a surveyor grouping (several pictures used to make one). The same thing is done to a great extent on Google Earth where there are multiple sections of high and low res pics or regions next to each other. There are updated photo studies of that area of the moon within the lunar surveyor and prospector mission data that after a close inspection at pixel depth and in comparrison with the photo in question will show this difference in each of the resolutions and how the terrain would yeild that appearence at those dependant resolutions. My guess is that the original data set for that picture did indicate the loss of the portion of the series, but the real conspiracy here is why does all of the data that NASA collects eventually dissappear? Where are the chart data from the Gemini and Apollo missions?
     
  13. Nov 21, 2007 #12
    Since I dont have the data of the surveyor and prospector missions, I cannot make any comment about it. However, from what you say above, it seems like you are saying that there are more detailed images of this area that do show this 'glitch' in more detail. Do the other photos of the same area taken at a different time show the same digital 'glitch' shown on this photo? If so, I would be really interested to see some examples. Of course, there are always sensitive issues that are (politically, financially, etc) expedient to keep from the public domain and anyone who denies this probably does not live in the real world. Personally, I dont really care if there is a conspiracy going on or not, but I would like to try and determine the real truth for myself by holding an open questioning frame of mind.

    To comment that a thread is becoming boring is not only rude but pointless, since a boring thread dies its own natural death by no-one contributing opinions. If it makes you uncomfortable, then you really should ask yourself why you want to stop the thread. If it really is boring, then you do not need to say so. Just dont add to it.
     
  14. Nov 22, 2007 #13

    russ_watters

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    We don't care either. Truth be told, though, you are not holding and "open and quesioning mind". If you were, you wouldn't be asking these questions. You are clearly holding on to a certain belief. And that belief is a line of discussion not worth entertaining here.

    Thread locked.
     
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