Can the gas law be applied at high temp?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the applicability of the ideal gas law at high temperatures, specifically in the range of 1000-1200 K, while maintaining ambient pressure. Participants explore the implications of temperature on gas behavior and the potential deviations from the ideal gas law.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that higher temperatures may enhance the validity of the ideal gas law due to reduced influence of short-range forces between molecules.
  • Others argue that at very high temperatures, molecular breakdown and ionization can occur, leading to an increase in the number of moles and altering volume or pressure, which may deviate from the ideal gas law.
  • A participant mentions that in fully ionized plasma, the ideal gas law can be well verified due to Debye shielding, which mitigates the effects of long-range electrostatic forces.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that gas molecules may become 'softer' at high temperatures, potentially affecting the linearity of the gas law, indicating that every law has its own domain of applicability.
  • It is noted that while increased temperatures generally imply higher energies and lower potential energies, new interactions such as ionization can complicate the application of the ideal gas law.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the conditions under which the ideal gas law remains valid at high temperatures. There is no consensus on the extent to which ionization and other factors affect the law's applicability.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the assumptions of the ideal gas law, such as the negligible interactions between molecules and the effects of ionization at high temperatures. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

haiha
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Recently on forum we have several topics about the ideal gas law which involve the high and low pressure. Now I wonder if this law can be applied at rather high temperatures, let say 1000-1200 K, but the pressure is just ambient.

Thank you for reading the question.
THL
 
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I would say that higher the temperature the better the perfect gas law should work.

This is because the short range forces that cause the deviation from the perfect gas law play less and less role when the temperature (the energies) is higher. Don't forget the perfect gas law occurs when the interactions between molecules is negligible (although large enough to allow the thermodynamic equilibrium to be reached, ... , long discussion).

However, at higher and higer temperature molecules can break down and even atom can become ionised. This cause the number of "moles" to increase and changes the volume or the pressure, and thereby cause a deviation from the perfect law in the course.

Moreover, new forces occur since ionization will produces ions and ions will experience very strong and -in principle- long range attraction. However, in fully ionized plasma, the perfect gas law is very well verified. The reason is that this long range eletrostatic forces are shielded by cloud of electron around the ions, this is called Debye shielding. Plasma physics is a quite interresting subject ...

Michel
 
Thank you lalbatros.

Your explanation is quite clear. I just think that at relatively high temperature, gas molecules may get 'softer' or something else, and that could affect the linearity of the gas law. Anyway, every law has its own domain doesn't it.
 
Haiha,

Clearly, when the interactions (potential energy) between molecule become negligible compared to the total energy of the molecules, then the perfect gas law become more and more precisely verified.

As I explained, generally increased temperatures imply higer energies and constant of lower potential energies.

However, sometimes new physics pop-up, like ionisation, and new interactions appear, like long range electrostatic forces. Then the increased validity of the perfect gas law is not granted anymore. However, Debye shielding makes comes to rescue and in hot ionised gases, the perfect gas law tend to be valid. Note also that plasmas display quite a lot of interresting physics.

Michel
 

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