Can the Kepler Problem be Solved for Bodies with Spin?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the exploration of the Kepler problem in the context of rigid bodies with spin, specifically examining how the inclusion of spin affects trajectories, periods, and the overall validity of the problem's solutions. Participants are considering both theoretical and mathematical approaches to this complex issue.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the differences in trajectory or period when comparing point bodies to rigid bodies with spin, seeking methods to incorporate spin into the Kepler problem.
  • Another participant suggests using a barbell model (two mass points connected by a rod) in a gravitational field as a simple example to illustrate the complexities involved.
  • There is a suggestion to compute the motion of the barbell rotating around a central mass and compare it to the general solution without spin.
  • One participant proposes writing down the Lagrange equations and solving them numerically, indicating that the system may exhibit chaotic behavior and diverge from the classical Kepler problem.
  • There is mention of the possibility of introducing a small parameter to simplify the problem, though this remains speculative.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the feasibility of solving the Kepler problem with spin, with some acknowledging the complexity and difficulty of finding solutions, while others propose specific approaches without reaching a consensus on the best method.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of existing literature, noting that only partial results are available in articles rather than textbooks. There is also an acknowledgment of the potential chaotic nature of the system when spin is included.

Vrbic
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Hello I'm wondering, what is difference in trajectory or period or...something if I try to compare solution of Kepler problem for point bodies and "rigid" bodies with spins. More precisely is some easy way how to include a spin of bodies to this problem? Or this procedure for describing of such situation is not valid anymore? If you may let me know some book or some link about that.
Thank you all.
 
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for a simplest example consider a barbell (two equivalent mass points linked by a weightless rod) in the gravity field of a fixed mass point. Consider a planar motion

Actually it is a very hard problem, you can find only partial results in articles, not in textbooks
 
Last edited:
zwierz said:
for a simplest example consider a barbell (two equivalent mass points linked by a weightless rod) in the gravity field of a fixed mass point. Consider a planar motion

Actually it is a very hard problem, you can find only partial results in articles, not in textbooks
So do you mean I should try to compute a case when a barbell rotate around some central point object? And compare with general solution (without a spin)?
What procedure would you suggest? Using Lagrangian and solve Euler-Lagrange equations? Or how to insert "a spin" into general Kepler problem?
 
I suggest that you write down the Lagrange equations and solve them numerically to make sure that it is a chaotic system and it does not have any relation to the Kepler problem. Perhaps some hope could be possible if you introduce a small parameter.
 

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