Can we make vehicle motor simulation more realistic?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around improving the realism of vehicle motor simulations, specifically focusing on the calculation of engine and transmission dynamics in a car simulation project. Participants explore various aspects of engine RPM calculation, engine force application, and efficiency considerations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a basic formula for calculating engine RPM based on wheel RPM, gear ratios, and main gear ratios.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) maps as a means to enhance the understanding of engine efficiency, noting that these maps are derived from dynamometer measurements.
  • A participant clarifies that their focus is on a more realistic calculation of engine RPM rather than the current method based on wheel RPM.
  • Concerns are raised about estimating the gear ratio of automatic transmissions due to torque converter slip, suggesting that the formula for engine force needs to be modified to account for fuel consumption rate and to make efficiency a function of both RPM and torque.
  • Another participant suggests that the calculation of rear wheel torque should incorporate throttle position and proposes a revised approach to calculating rear wheel RPM and force, emphasizing the need for clarity on drivetrain efficiency.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best methods for calculating engine RPM and efficiency, with no consensus reached on a single approach. Multiple competing ideas and modifications to the initial formulas are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in current methods, including assumptions about throttle position and the complexities of automatic transmission behavior, which may affect the accuracy of the simulations.

Towel
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Hi.
We have a problem, we need to simulate the engine and transmission of a car in our project.
Now we take rpm of the wheels and on the basis of it we calculate engine's rpm
Code:
RPM = RpmFromWheels * Gear * MainGear
and then we calculate and apply force from engine to the wheels.
Code:
EngineForce = Throttle * getTorque(RPM) * Efficiency * Gear * MainGear
Is there any way to make it more real?
 
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The engine efficiency depends on both the engine RPM and torque. The best information on this is contained in BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption) maps that are measured on engine test stands. Dynamometers can also measure BSFC maps. See (Maps are usually plotted as torque (Newton-meters) vs. RPM.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_specific_fuel_consumption

Transmission efficiency is rarely published. Automatics are nominally about 85% efficient (which is why they need water cooling). Manuals are typically 96% to 98% efficient.

Bob S
 
You got me wrong, but thanks anyway, this article will useful later.
I was referring to a more realistic way of calculating engine RPM, not as now, through the
wheel RPM.
 
Estimating the actual gear ratio of an automatic transmission is very difficult, because the torque converter "slips" . How do you plan to do it? Also, this statement

EngineForce = Throttle * getTorque(RPM) * Efficiency * Gear * MainGear

needs to be modified to

1) Include the fuel consumption rate. I don't believe you can get the input power (fuel burn rate) from the throttle position alone.

2) Make the engine efficiency call a function of both RPM and torque [getEfficiency(torque,RPM)].

Bob S
 
Towel said:
Code:
EngineForce = Throttle * getTorque(RPM) * Efficiency * Gear * MainGear
That should be:
Code:
RearWheelTorque = getEnginetTorque(RPM, Throttle) * Efficiency * Gear * MainGear

The function gettorque(rpm, ...) needs to include throttle position, unless you assume full throttle application.

Might as well start with engine rpm:
Code:
RearWheelRpm = EngineRPM / (Gear * MainGear)

Then add:
Code:
RearWheelForce = RearWheelRPM / RearWheelRadius

Code:
RearWheelSpeed = RearWheelRPM * RearWheelRadius

Bob S said:
The engine efficiency.
I'm pretty sure that efficiency in this case referes to drivetrain efficiency.
 
Last edited:

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