Change in Entropy for Irreversible Processes

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the incorrect application of the equation dq = TdS for irreversible processes in thermodynamics. The user initially derives this equation by manipulating the first law of thermodynamics, specifically for adiabatic processes, but fails to account for the differences between reversible and irreversible processes. The conclusion drawn is that dq is greater than TdS for irreversible processes, indicating a fundamental misunderstanding in the treatment of entropy in such scenarios.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the first law of thermodynamics
  • Familiarity with state variables in thermodynamics
  • Knowledge of reversible and irreversible processes
  • Basic concepts of entropy and its role in thermodynamic equations
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of the second law of thermodynamics on irreversible processes
  • Learn about the differences between reversible and irreversible work in thermodynamics
  • Explore the concept of entropy generation in irreversible processes
  • Investigate the role of temperature in defining dq for different thermodynamic processes
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in thermodynamics, particularly those studying energy systems, chemical engineering, or physical chemistry, will benefit from this discussion.

nayanm
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I was following along in my Thermodynamic textbook and began playing with some definitions. In the following formulation, I somehow managed to prove (obviously incorrectly) that dq = TdS for even irreversible processes. I was hoping someone could point out where in the proof I'm going wrong.

First, consider a both reversible and adiabatic process.

Since dw = -p_{ext}dV for all processes and dq = 0 for adiabatic processes: dU = -p_{ext}dV

We also know for a reversible and adiabatic process, U is a function of V only and not S, so: dU = \frac{∂U}{∂V}dV

Setting the coefficients equal: \frac{∂U}{∂V}=-p_{ext}

This equation involves only state variables and is therefore valid for all process, reversible or irreversible.Next consider a general process (either reversible or irreversible).

As before dw = -p_{ext}dV but now U is a function of S and V, so: dq = dU - dw = (\frac{∂U}{∂S}dS + \frac{∂U}{∂V}dV) - (-p_{ext}dV)

Simplifying: dq = \frac{∂U}{∂S}dS + \frac{∂U}{∂V}dV + p_{ext}dV

Finally, since we know \frac{∂U}{∂V}=-p_{ext}, the last two terms cancel, leaving: dq = \frac{∂U}{∂S}dS = TdS for any processes, reversible or irreversible.

But clearly, this is not true since dq >TdS for irreversible processes.

At which point, then, should I have needed to invoke irreversibility?

Thank you in advance.
 
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