Do Rear-Axle Chariots Have a Tighter Turning Circle Than Center-Axle Chariots?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ghost Writer
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Circle Turning
AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the turning capabilities of rear-axle versus center-axle chariots used in the Late Bronze Age. Scholars suggest that rear-axle chariots, like those used by the Egyptians, have a tighter turning circle due to the weight distribution in front of the axle. However, some participants argue that the opposite may be true, as a horse's ability to move sideways allows for tight turns regardless of axle placement. The effectiveness of turning is influenced by the distance from the axle to the horse, which can impact maneuverability. Ultimately, the debate highlights the complexities of chariot design and its implications for performance in ancient warfare.
Ghost Writer
Messages
1
Reaction score
2
Hi all -

In the Near Eastern Late Bronze Age the Egyptians employed a two-man chariot with the axle placed at the rear of the vehicle; whereas the Hittites employed a three-man chariot with the axle placed in the center of the vehicle. As a result, the weight of the two-man crew in the Egyptian vehicle was in front of the axle whereas the weight of the three-man crew was directly over the axle. Several scholars assert that the Egyptian chariot with its rear-axle placement had a tighter turning circle than the Hittite chariot with it center-axle placement. My questions are: Is this in fact true? And if it is true, why is it true? Which is to say, what is the scientific explanation as to why a rear-axle configuration with crew weight distributed forward of the axle results in a tighter turning circle than a center-axle configuration with crew weight distributed over the axle? In asking these asking let us assume that wheel track and axle length as well as the total vehicle length (including horses) are equal for both chariots.

Thanks in advance to anyone providing answers to these questions.
 
  • Like
Likes Greg Bernhardt
Engineering news on Phys.org
Welcome to PF.
A horse that steps sideways will rotate the chariot about the centre of the axle.
The closer the axle is to the horse, the tighter the possible turning circle.
That suggests the opposite of what you claim several scholars assert.
Have you got it backwards?
 
I agree with @Baluncore -- Do you have pictures or drawings of the two different designs, including the harnesses to the horse(s)?

EDIT -- Maybe like these two images?

https://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/assets/img/full-size/pharaoh-chariot-merl.jpg
pharaoh-chariot-merl.jpg


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/55/9f/4e559fa64a60e5ca6b1c024ddf831078.jpg
4e559fa64a60e5ca6b1c024ddf831078.jpg
 

Attachments

  • pharaoh-chariot-merl.jpg
    pharaoh-chariot-merl.jpg
    59.5 KB · Views: 569
  • 4e559fa64a60e5ca6b1c024ddf831078.jpg
    4e559fa64a60e5ca6b1c024ddf831078.jpg
    19.5 KB · Views: 679
Unlike a vehicle with limited front wheel steering, a horse can walk sideways, and backwards at the same time, if needed. Any chariot can therefore be turned in it's own length. If the wheels are at the rear they must be included in the length.
The length of the combination is the diagonal from one shoulder of the horse to the diagonally opposite rearmost point of the chariot or wheel.
 
Posted June 2024 - 15 years after starting this class. I have learned a whole lot. To get to the short course on making your stock car, late model, hobby stock E-mod handle, look at the index below. Read all posts on Roll Center, Jacking effect and Why does car drive straight to the wall when I gas it? Also read You really have two race cars. This will cover 90% of problems you have. Simply put, the car pushes going in and is loose coming out. You do not have enuff downforce on the right...
I'm trying to decide what size and type of galvanized steel I need for 2 cantilever extensions. The cantilever is 5 ft. The space between the two cantilever arms is a 17 ft Gap the center 7 ft of the 17 ft Gap we'll need to Bear approximately 17,000 lb spread evenly from the front of the cantilever to the back of the cantilever over 5 ft. I will put support beams across these cantilever arms to support the load evenly
Thread 'What's the most likely cause for this carbon seal crack?'
We have a molded carbon graphite seal that is used in an inline axial piston, variable displacement hydraulic pump. One of our customers reported that, when using the “A” parts in the past, they only needed to replace them due to normal wear. However, after switching to our parts, the replacement cycle seems to be much shorter due to “broken” or “cracked” failures. This issue was identified after hydraulic fluid leakage was observed. According to their records, the same problem has occurred...

Similar threads

Back
Top